Playing in a big band

[Lionel Albert]

I learned to play bass bluffing my way into the jazz band section of the regional university summer junior high jazz band section. I had a few years of private piano lessons, so I knew bass clef. I had a Sears electric guitar, so I knew how a neck and frets worked. I played a horn in school band so I knew my scales and some other music theory. It takes all of that and more to properly support a big band. Study your music theory. Listen to the recordings to get the style. Stay on top of things with the drummer. Practice, practice, practice. Since these are written charts, becoming familiar with the fundamentals of the double bass Simandl method is helpful, starting with 1/2 position playing in flats keys to help with the transitions.

You had the chance to have parts written for double bass, it would be easier if it were the case for every part I've got, it's not the case.
I'm more used to playing bass lines with double bass fingering with a lot of open strings, it works very well on few tunes but not all.
In the solo parts I play the way I'm used to, nobody complained.
Comfort range you said, that's right.

 

[iiipopes]

You had the chance to have parts written for double bass, it would be easier if it were the case for every part I've got, it's not the case.
I'm more used to playing bass lines with double bass fingering with a lot of open strings, it works very well on few tunes but not all.
In the solo parts I play the way I'm used to, nobody complained.
Comfort range you said, that's right.

I agree with everything in this post. The OP was wanting opening help. I have also had a lot of charts that were only hash marks; that's where you especially need to learn your scales, music theory, and style patterns, common motifs, etc., to construct a proper bass line. Bass solo in a jazz band? What's that?

 

[Lionel Albert]

I agree with everything in this post. The OP was wanting opening help. I have also had a lot of charts that were only hash marks; that's where you especially need to learn your scales, music theory, and style patterns, common motifs, etc., to construct a proper bass line. Bass solo in a jazz band? What's that?

Come on ! I mean when someone is soloing like in a combo.
About theory, scales, etc. I'm more a teacher than a student.

 

[Bruce Calin]

Another thing to be aware of is your volume level. Especially with BG as opposed to DB, it's easy to be too loud or too soft. I frequently hear school bands or amateur groups where the bass and the rhythm section in general are one or the other. Checking in with other band members or the leader if there is one can help. Getting a good, clear tone also makes a huge difference in a big group. You want to be supportive, not weak or overbearing.

 

[Hurricane Jimmie]

So Anyway, for several years I played in a horn band that had anywhere from 6-12 pieces. The band was primarily retirees and community band players.
They had a 'Bass Book' which had all their arrangements, some with chord charts, some just straight notation.
Since I don't read music, I copied this material for my own book and made my own notations. It was the only way I could have played in this group.
No one ever questioned why I wasn't playing exactly what was written on the chart.

 

[timmus]

I played trombone in a "traditional" big band in Memphis, TN in the mid 70's. The hardest thing for me was reading the score...I think they were copies of copies (of copies) from what were probably handwritten originals...probably by Tommy Dorsey . Good stuff and very fun to play. Good luck

 

[Lionel Albert]

So Anyway, for several years I played in a horn band that had anywhere from 6-12 pieces. The band was primarily retirees and community band players.
They had a 'Bass Book' which had all their arrangements, some with chord charts, some just straight notation.
Since I don't read music, I copied this material for my own book and made my own notations. It was the only way I could have played in this group.
No one ever questioned why I wasn't playing exactly what was written on the chart.

I'm coming from saxophone and guitar playing, when I started to play the bass, in order to avoid guitar tricks, I wrote all my lines and played them all on first position.
Now when I'm reading a lonely bass line I know what the changes are without chord symbols (bass tricks I would say), it's good and bad at the same time, I can't anticipate and some lines don't fall under the fingers easily because they look like piano or sometimes guitar mimicks : full arpeggio lines or kind of, not a lot of chromatic lines, etc.
I don't have the words but I guess you understand me.
Well, it's a bass guitar, it can be played like a guitar with guitar fingerings, that's why I'm using the 5 string bass, I don't want to stretch too much.

 

[Lionel Albert]

I played trombone in a "traditional" big band in Memphis, TN in the mid 70's. The hardest thing for me was reading the score...I think they were copies of copies (of copies) from what were probably handwritten originals...probably by Tommy Dorsey . Good stuff and very fun to play. Good luck

It's a PITA mine are clear but look like mosquitoes crashed on the paper... With some numbers.
- Let's play measure 53 !
- Where is that ? Do you mean the modulation ? The march ?
- No ! Measure 53 !
- Wait ! I see it's written 56, let me count, 55, 54, 53. Yes, it's the march.
- 1 2 3 4

A cascade of saxes and horns and a lost bass.

OK, kind of exaggeration...

 

[bassbrad]

When I played in a big band I would always start with the written part before considering improvising a part. Very often the bass part notated worked with the rest of the arrangement to have the proper harmonic effect, changing those notes often led to unwanted dissonance. I would also consider who the arranger was.
FWIW you must understand that there are several periods of development in big band styles and play each properly. For example a Basie chart will be different from an Ellington chart or a Stan Kenton or Maynard Ferguson chart. You need to understand those differences.

My experience in big bands started in high school through college and several professional big bands including ones in NYC, Chicago, LA and Las Vegas.

 

[sean_on_bass]

"It depends." If there is a written bass line with no chord symbols, then play the written line on the staff. If there is a written bass line, but also chord symbols, then you can choose if you want to play the written line or improvise your own bass line off of the chord symbols. If there is only chord symbols and no written line, then create your own bass line off of the chord symbols.

To dive in a little deeper on those first two scenarios, ie a written line is present:

-i suggest to always give the written line a chance, as the arranger may really intend for you to play those notes specifically in interaction with the rest of the band
-sometimes those written lines are a "soli" in unison with the horns and should be played
-It never hurts to ask the band director what he/she wants for the given chart
-sometimes the written line is so horrendous that it's best to just play off of the chord symbols instead, or if no chord symbols present then you can try reading off the guitar or piano chart instead which may have them

 

[BASSDROID]

I have played double bass in several big bands in my career, including a couple at pro level, and both contemporary and classic big band music.

If the chart is new to me, the first thing I do is locate a recording (if possible more than one) to absorb the larger picture regarding the form, arrangement, and orchestration.

Once I am comfortable with a larger picture, I move into the details: tempo, dynamics melody, modulations, stop time or soli parts etc.

Then I will move to working out written lines if there are any. I always try to play the ink at least the first few times the piece is performed in rehearsal.
After I have played the written part a few times with the band, I may choose to make a few adjustments if I feel they are needed, but only if this can be done in a sensitive way without disturbing the intended harmonic or rhythmic content.

Personally, I feel two of the most important elements to pay attention to when performing with a big band are tempo and feel. Where I decide to place my quarter note has a huge impact on the rest of the band. For medium tempos and higher, I do my best to place my quarter note a little bit ahead of the beat, while keeping the tempo rock solid. This supplies a secure groove for the other sections to play on and helps prevent the tempo from slowing when the horns are confronted with a challenging section. It is very important the drummer understands this concept so the tempo does not change.

This also has benefits in theaters and larger rooms because it causes my slower moving bass frequencies travel through the air at a rate that more closely matches the other instruments, resulting in a tight and present full band sound from the audiences perspective.

 

[Bruce Calin]

I played trombone in a "traditional" big band in Memphis, TN in the mid 70's. The hardest thing for me was reading the score...I think they were copies of copies (of copies) from what were probably handwritten originals...probably by Tommy Dorsey . Good stuff and very fun to play. Good luck

I played in a big band years ago that had such beat up unreadable charts that they were known as The Dead Sea Scrolls.

 

[sean_on_bass]

I played in a big band years ago that had such beat up unreadable charts that they were known as The Dead Sea Scrolls.

at some point they just kinda of disintegrate like old underwear, hah

 

[eddododo]

Hi !

I'm playing the bass in a big band, I would like to know how you work the tunes.
Everything is written, sometimes lines are not so logical or comfortable that's why I play again my five string bass in order to make the fingering easier (not a question of range).
I find it difficult, do you write an extra page with chord symbols (some scores don't have chord notations) ?
How do you manage it ?

One caveat I’ll get out of the way is that I’ve always been a great sight reader on horns, so on bass there’s almost literally nothing I can’t sight read

That said- if it’s pretty straight ahead, standard jazz, I’m just going to read it down.. after a few takes I’ll have an idea of things like what accents and syncopations I want to tie in, and things like playing a soli lead etc.

These days, most base charts, have plenty of cues and accents and written parts, but I’ve always been a big fan of getting my hands on a copy of the conductors score or at least something like the piano or like lead trumpet score- this is filling the role of a very detailed bass score. In all honesty, I would rather read one of those alternatives, because then I am free to creatively, think and support the song without doing the wishy-washy game of chicken between following the written bass score vs not being a robot.

If it’s something a little more composed, or modern, or otherwise not-swinging-through-changes, then I just read it, learn it, and fill it out as I see fit.

It’s not particularly challenging work to play big band music on bass, in terms of technical demands, and in terms of pushing the edge of stretching things and “mixing it up,” so it’s a really refreshing opportunity to get back to the roots of being as impactful and supportive as a bassist. Even things like walking, it can be a deceptively challenging task to walk lines that are plain and functional enough that I am making everything solid and four, while still trying to be creative and interesting in a way that. Enhances the music… If you’re playing in a combo, you can really push things in terms of interest and inciting responses from the other players, and while in a big band, it’s really more about laying things down and enhancing the length of the walking phrases, rather than being overly adventurous or clever with your vocabulary in an independently self-focused creative way.


all that being said, if you’re really in the learning phase, and struggling with things like making the changes, then practice 2 bar chunks (for example). If it’s an odd 4 bar phrase like Eb^| Gb- |G^#11 | B^ , then your favorite ii-V motion won’t cut it. So I will take the last two bars, and really work it out, loop them, and try a bunch of different things, and challenge yourself to come up with, say, 5 ways to connect them that really work and support the melody/group. Then add the previous bar so it’s the last 3 bars.. then add the first to make the whole phrase.

this tactic of starting at the end, and working towards the beginning is a technique that works for EVERYTHING.. it allows you to know what is next as you are working on a chunk. There’s this phenomenon in academic music, where everybody sounds good at the beginning of a phrase, and the end of the phrase is the weakest, or they sound good, going up the scale, but going down the scale sounds worse, and it’s simply because if you are practicing chunks in order, you will always have done the beginning more times than the end, unless you were intentionally removing the tendency. By working backwards, not only do you remove that front loaded by us, but you actually learn it faster because you are able to connect the entire thing sooner, because as you work through each difficult chunk, the next chunk is ready to go when you land on it.

 

[Wasnex]

Hi !

I'm playing the bass in a big band, I would like to know how you work the tunes.
Everything is written, sometimes lines are not so logical or comfortable that's why I play again my five string bass in order to make the fingering easier (not a question of range).
I find it difficult, do you write an extra page with chord symbols (some scores don't have chord notations) ?
How do you manage it ?

What you get tends to vary from one arrangement to the next. Sometimes the bass part is written out with or without chord symbols. Sometimes you are mostly reading chords and no written part is provided.

I like to have the music well before the first rehearsal. This gives me time to review and identify any sections that I need to work up.

If the written bass line works well or is iconic, I will play pretty much as written. I may make minor changes here or there to suit my preferences. An example of an iconic bass line would be the classic arrangement of In the Mood.

If the bass line is not well written or does not lay under my fingers very well, then I will make up my own. If the chords are provided, it's usually easy for me. If the chords are not provided, I may need to take a look at a piano or guitar part. This is the only time I would really consider writing out an extra page.

The last time this occurred, I was playing a walking line that was fast enough to be challenging (right at my limit). The line did not lay under my fingers very well. I think it was actually improvised by the arranger, who was probably a keyboard player.

All of the parts were written out without chord notation. In my experience, this is pretty unusual for a professional level arrangement, but it was commissioned for us, rather than being a published, off-the-shelf work. I was subbing for our regular bass player for a preliminary reading rehearsal that was really only intended to make sure all of the arrangements worked. I suggested writing out the chords, otherwise the arrangement was fine.

I also play upright bass. I struggle a bit when I need to play up and down the neck on fretted 4-string bass guitar. This relates to accuracy of shifts. Way easier for me to cover these lines on upright. However, my #1 bass guitar has been a 6-string for many years, which largely mitigates the problem. A 6 allows playing across the strings more, so you typically shift much less. Also, after years of experience, my shifting and knowledge of the fretboard improved.

 

[Bruce Calin]

I know you're not playing DB but when I have a student who needs to know how to play in his school band I tell them to watch a few WDR big band videos with Mr. Goldsby and play like that.

 

[Bruce Calin]

There is a very good writer named Greg Yasinitsky who writes out all the accidentals(no key signature). This can be strange at first but actually works well once you get used to it.

 

[Carl Hillman]

Hi !

I'm playing the bass in a big band, I would like to know how you work the tunes.
Everything is written, sometimes lines are not so logical or comfortable that's why I play again my five string bass in order to make the fingering easier (not a question of range).
I find it difficult, do you write an extra page with chord symbols (some scores don't have chord notations) ?
How do you manage it ?

This was recorded live in the studio.
About 85% of this was written out. (The solo sections were just chord symbols.)
I was lucky that I got the music ahead of time. I don't think I would have been able to sight read the soli section down without some flubs.

 

[Low Class]

Quote: “I'm playing the bass in a big band, I would like to know how you work the tunes.”


With respect, I think its helpful to stand back a little and try to appreciate the bigger picture.

Traditional Big Bands featuring brilliantly scored notation by scintillating musical arrangers, will often require exacting, carefully written parts, are followed prto the letter.

Some Big Bands performing modern music feature a core rhythm section. That being fundamental to the musical drive and feel of modern musical styles. So, I think you should determine what “style” of Big Band you are in?

Musical Directors usually give rhythm section musicians in the latter case, a great deal more latitude in determining precisely what they play, as long as it supplies the necessary impact, style and the ideal rhythmic feel that the rest of the Big Band lay their parts on top of.

In the former case, with a traditional Big Band performing familiar “standards”, hopefully with excellent parts that fit together superbly providing immense musical impact, but in a completely different style, its essential to be able to read and have the notation down pat and delivered musically exactly as written.

Of course, its entirely possible that in a versatile Big Band both types of music and their concomitant arrangements do indeed come into play. So, then its necessary to approach each individual piece of music in the style that the arrangement requires.


Typically, the main programs musical arrangers use churn out individual parts from the full score.

It might be worth asking if as well as your own part, you could have an extra copy of the guitarists chord chart which would involve very little effort on the part of the Band Leader, but would give in both cases a precise guide for you to easily determine where the music is going harmonically in both cases. It would clear up any seeming anomalies that you were questioning quite easily.


My personal approach as a Musical Director is always at first to score a basic arrangement (Vocal, Piano, Bass, Drums, Guitar Chords) which is in reality an over view of the “idea of the song and its presentation”.

This will provide tempo, dynamics, musical style and emotional feel information along with written notes detailing any special musical interventions or features.

But essentially, it’s the basic idea of the song, its musical arrangement and presentation.


How I think about composing, is that the most important element it the actual “idea” of the song or music.

What is the concept? What is it really about? What is its driving force? What is the emotion to be movingly communicated to the audience?

If the composer has a very clear idea of these matters, then I think of that concept as being the top of a mountain. Every other detail of choice, in music, lyrics, musical orchestration and style; streams outwardly in an entirely clear and logical way once you have properly grasped the “mountain top vision”.


So, a basic Vocal, Piano, Bass, Drums, Guitar Chord arrangement is very helpful in clarifying the songs overall “vision”.

It makes preparing a full score which often features 32 staves much easier, making many complexly detailed aspects of when various instruments and different sections need to come in straightforward.


That doesn’t mean a rhythm section will be required throughout an entire song, such parts could be liked to a dummy guide vocal track on a recording which will later be replaced completely by more complex orchestration.

However, for most music that is the musicians daily fare, a basic “rhythm section” score can usually provide what is mostly required.

If excellent musicians are involved usually their superb range of musical chops provide more than most arrangers could write for.

The musicians actively enjoy the headroom of creative musical freedom they are provided and reward the project accordingly.


So, I hope this is all something helpful for you to think about and maybe to diplomatically and intelligently discuss with your Band Leader.

Fostering good working relationships is important and mutually beneficial to all parties, if they are open to improving.

But as long a you have a copy of the guitar chart for reference, you should be able to find a good working solution for any problem areas that might arise.

I have found that musicians strongly moan to me about other musical arrangers and orchestrators. What they seem to appreciate is that I work very hard indeed to make their job as easy as possible.

Everything is clear and straightforward for them and so they can do the best they are capable of, which is really what they want to do. Its just about providing the right framework for them to perform at their best.

I studied Bass with Carol Kaye and have a lot of Basses so that I can write for the Bass and talk to Bass Players understanding the instrument from their perspective. To me this is fundamental to being a good Musical Director and Arranger. I take a similar approach to every instrument of the orchestra.

Good Luck!

I played big band for over 40 years. Couldn't have said it better myself!

Sight reading has always been one of my strong points having a background in piano and trumpet before playing bass. An invaluable skill in getting these type of gigs.

 

[Lionel Albert]

@Bruce Calin I'm very used to reading these kind of things, when I started to play the bass, I took a chord progression and wrote my lines inspired by Jamey Aebersold and Ron Carter method I saw one day.
I even taught the bass like this.
At that time I used my four fingers then I switched to three fingers in order to be more endurant.
This fingering is kind of useless when I read the lines I've got.
There are sometimes complex funky lines that use the same rhythm than trumpet 8th and 16th notes on a major 9th ambitus, from 7th to 9th on a minor chord from Ab1 to Bb3 the same funky line with 8th and 16th notes, they are just arpeggios but very far from my regular bass playing.
Fortunately they are repeating lines so it's not so hard to read but I use a lot my third finger.
So I have to forget the way I used to play.