Playing in a big band

[Jason Hollar]

There is a very good writer named Greg Yasinitsky who writes out all the accidentals(no key signature). This can be strange at first but actually works well once you get used to it.

@Bruce Calin I'm very used to reading these kind of things, when I started to play the bass, I took a chord progression and wrote my lines inspired by Jamey Aebersold and Ron Carter method I saw one day.
I even taught the bass like this.

Wow that’s interesting! I’ve always struggled with reading (it’s definitely getting better) and I’ve always wondered if a method like this would be more practical in jazz charts that move in & out of various keys.

I will have to dig out my Aebersold books and see what’s going on in there!

As a side note, there’s a bassist here in town who did the Ron Carter transcriptions and sold them to Jamey back in the day.

 

[timmus]

I played in a big band years ago that had such beat up unreadable charts that they were known as The Dead Sea Scrolls.

I totally get it!

 

[timmus]

My son who has a masters degree in music ed is a drummer and one of the very few people I know that can actually sight read drum scores. I don't know how he does it. I can sight read trombone parts and to some degree, bass guitar scores but drums??? Nope...

 

[fdeck]

I got my start as a bassist in the middle school jazz band, and have played in big-bands at every opportunity since then. Today, my main band is a 19-piece big-band.

Big-band is a fantastic opportunity to hone your reading and ensemble chops. Plus, the music is a blast. Like orchestral music, the band is like a huge complex instrument in the hands of the composer, and can do things that are just not possible in a smaller band setting.

My advice is: Play the ink if at all possible. It will be a rapid learning curve, but a valuable one. Many of the arrangements are based on recordings that you can find on YouTube, but resist the temptation to "cheat" because sight reading is a valuable skill that is only learned by practice.

Once you're fluent at reading, then you can decide whether you play the ink or go off on your own. Especially for a lot early material, improvising a modern bass line kind of ruins the music.

If the reading is hard at first, don't feel bad. My band gathers charts from all over the place, so many have rehearsal markings from previous owners. I've seen quite a few parts with the note names written above every note, on easy charts.

 

[richfirstbass]

I think that what is written needs to be honored first, because a lot of times the bass has a specific harmonic role (sometimes not starting with the root on 1) or playing lines/hits with the players in and out of the various horn/sections sections. Doubling with the bari sax or bass trombone happens frequently. A lot of charts have rhythm section specifics that need to be played as written. Numerous key changes with the chart happen all the time. That brings up the need to be skilled at reading and "playing" the rests as well as the notes.
As mentioned by others, measures marked with only chords are open, but with the caveat that it should match the feel and momentum of the tune arrangement.

After you do that, you can make the attempt to change it from the original, but the appropriate caution needs to be taken not to upset the arrangement for the other players and the audience.

Part of my background is in playing in full big bands, some with singers, with extensive libraries. Double bass to electric fretless bass guitar. Everything from early dance music to Kenton, Wolpe, Ellington, Newsom, Goodwin, etc..
The libraries literally are numbered past 500. In one 2x/month band (this morning!), it is a sight reading adventure. Some tunes I've seen before in other bands; most, at least for me, are a cold read.
In situations where I've subbed for bassists in another bands, I usually "read the ink" by default. By the way, I've come across charts with no written chord changes in most of the chart.

I'm not a great reader, but playing in situations where things parts are written like big band, musicals, orchestra, encourages one to get better at it.
I continue to work on this.

Learning your instrument in terms of navigating your way around the whole length of the neck will go a long way in making the reading chart experience less stressful. Hence, I agree the prior posts' very valid reference to employing Simandl or other methods, even on electric bass guitar. If you can take the charts home, practice by working out optimal or alternate shifts with the as important goal of NOT looking at the neck as much as possible. While I'm not suggesting that you memorize the pieces, this practice facilitates using the alternate neck positions on-the-fly. Memorization doesn't work for me in these situations, because it could be months/years before I ever have to play the chart again.

Learning to read ahead as you go is another helpful skill.

Using a pencil, to make notes on charts is also acceptable. However, if your subbing, check with the bandleader.

If time permits, review the chart map BEFORE the downbeat, i.e. what sections are repeated, where the D.S.s and Codas are located, etc.; crucial when sight reading.

All this being said that are those arrangers/copyists that piss you off. For instance a chord from Eb To Edim indicated with the notation showing Eb to Fb!! Not nice when reading at bpm @ 180+.

 

[Altitude]

Play the charts as written. In big bands you’re not the only bass register voice, your notes are written carefully to work together with the low members of the horn section.

 

[Lionel Albert]

Play the charts as written. In big bands you’re not the only bass register voice, your notes are written carefully to work together with the low members of the horn section.

So you think trombones and baritone saxes play on the same range than the bass.
I'm happy to know it.
Only contrabass saxes play in that range, we don't see a lot of them in big bands.
I was talking about the walking bass.
My god ! I read silly things sometimes.

 

[Groove Doctor]

Traditional Big Bands featuring brilliantly scored notation by scintillating musical arrangers, will often require exacting, carefully written parts, are followed prto the letter.

There are some amazing parts. There’s also so average parts, and some downright awful parts. It just depends.

Exactly this. Man, I've seen some effed up bass parts in my day. It was often quite clear that the part was written by a piano player once you try to play it on keys. But those don't translate well to the anatomy of upright or bass guitar at all.

When parts didn't make much sense, I would grab the chords off the keys or guitar part, and it would often be illuminating what the arranger was going for. Grasping a part intellectually, analysing it in context of the bigger picture, helps me tremendously in playing even the most complicated parts. Not so much so when I have no idea what's going on.

Spot on.

i'd go a step further. Rather than use this to map your comfort zone onto the bass line, use it to analyse how a different arranger has approached it and learn from it. Maybe you'll not agree with every choice, but it should give you a much broader appreciation of the lines in context. This is a great learning opportunity

Yes this!!
I remember analysing one songs guitar chart and it was 3 or 4 different chords per bar. I analysed it all and concluded they wrote a terrible bass part.
Just had to tidy up the occasional “What the heck notes” and it fitted, sounded, and fingered heaps better.

Tip to OP. Go thru the dodgy sections with the pianist and find a consensus on what will fit better. You’re most likely to clash with their left hand or the bari Sax parts.

 

[Altitude]

So you think trombones and baritone saxes play on the same range than the bass.
I'm happy to know it.
Only contrabass saxes play in that range, we don't see a lot of them in big bands.
I was talking about the walking bass.
My god ! I read silly things sometimes.

Play whatever you want then. I thought you were asking our advice.

 

[Lionel Albert]

Play whatever you want then. You did ask our advice.

I had great advice but you made me smile, it can crash with the piano because of a similarly timber, but with horns... Unless you play the double bass with a bow.
Horn parts are well written in order to get the best sound.
I don't know if you've ever tried to play the saxophone or the trombone on the low register, it doesn't articulate very well.
If it were the case there wouldn't be alto, tenor and baritone saxes.
On a walking bass there is no crash except with the piano or sometimes the guitar.
Voicings are generally played in a limited range, bass is also limited on a range, when you play everything on first position with a lot of open strings you won't crash with a lot of people.

 

[jmlee]

I play in two very good big bands at present, upright most of the time and electric bass where specified by the chart or the modernity/style. With reference to the OP and some of the other postings, I think I can say this much with some confidence: (i) In general, play the ink when specified and leave improvised lines to sections where just chord changes are specified or backgrounds to solos with room to open up. (ii) Learn to read well and especially to sight read well; you’ll endear yourself to the MD when new material comes around or you’re filling in with a new band. (iii) Don’t presume that arrangers don’t know how to write for bass. Some are sketchy but some *really* know what they’re doing and have specific musical goals in mind. (iv) And, yes, the bass part will often double baritone sax, trombone, and piano parts, especially in exposed shots and figures—another reason to play the ink. (v) In big bands, the meter belongs to the bassist: the metronome for the band. The drummer is working with you, but often busy playing shots and reinforcing figures in the horns, especially the trumpet section. Dependable, solid meter is Job One. (vi) Many charts are long, with multiple pages, repeats, key and meter changes, DS’s, codas, dynamics and so on. Photocopy your charts, stick them together with tape, and spread them out over two music stands side-by-side when playing. (See photo of my two stands.) Use coloured highlighters to mark important stuff, and annotate the charts for study and to remind you what your MD has asked for. (vii) Listen hard to what’s going on around you, and keep your music stand up high enough so that you can see the MD’s motions in your peripheral vision. (viii) Finally, enjoy yourself. Big bands are as much fun as anything I’ve done in music.

 

[Groove Doctor]

sometimes the written line is so horrendous that it's best to just play off of the chord symbols instead, or if no chord symbols present then you can try reading off the guitar or piano chart instead which may have them

Yep.

After I have played the written part a few times with the band, I may choose to make a few adjustments if I feel they are needed, but only if this can be done in a sensitive way without disturbing the intended harmonic or rhythmic content.

Yes.

In all honesty, I would rather read [conductors score], because then I am free to creatively, think and support the song without doing the wishy-washy game of chicken between following the written bass score vs not being a robot.

Yes. A bass part should have a solid swing (or groove). Some written parts have neither.

Learning to read ahead as you go is another helpful skill.

Excellent advice. I was often reading 2-4 bars ahead in my prime, in both notated and chords-only charts.

This skill REALLY helps navigating key changes, repeats, codas, page turns, etc.

You can also pay more attention to looking at the conductor, the other players and the audience instead of your head being buried in the music stand.
I really recommend reading ahead.

 

[jmlee]

I really recommend reading ahead.

*That* is the key secret to reading for big bands and music theatre!

 

[richfirstbass]

Thanks, I hope I will do better when everyone are there, like I said there was no guitarist and no pianist so I did the way I could.

I just re-read the OP's posts. Part of the difficulty here that hasn't been discussed, is that without the COMPLETE harmonic structure of a complete rhythm section, the basslines are being judged out of context. Yeah, they could certainly be bad, but...

I also am not sure if there isn't some misunderstanding of the posts via a language issue. The OP states that he has a sax and guitar background and limits his bass playing to the first position on a 5-string.
I'm not sure what he's playing where you can just stay in the first position and navigate the charts. But then, he did also mention that he's played only twice with the big band without the complete section. That would represent a very small number of charts. We don't have any idea of the quality and level of chart(s) involved.

 

[Sam Evans]

Ah, big bands. The joy of playing in Db major ...

It's definitely not easy. I've always been a fairly strong sight reader, esp. on upright bass, so that helped. I agree that learning to read ahead (for me, usually just one measure) is helpful. Lots of practice, lots of rehearsals (hopefully).

I don't know if you play upright, but if so, I would say that I found it easier to keep my eyes on the music while playing upright than electric.

 

[richfirstbass]

Also, is the 5 string bass the OP's talking about an added high-C string or a low-B string?

 

[Paul New]

With all these loooonnng posts no ome has mentioned time?

You need a solid sense of time. I play in the sax section now (bari) but for years played bass in big band. What you will be subjected to is 17 or 18 players who have different ideas about what the time is, and it’s your job to give them a solid reference. Along with the rest of the rhythm of course, but you have a big responsibility within the section and need to ge able to play a solid pulse. That means working with the metronome. It’s always going to be a compromise, but know it.

On the swing pieces I tend to play a little on top. Know the appropriate feel to play on the various grooves, and be prepared to adjust to everyone. You have to listen.

Do a lot of listening to the music, and develop a sense of taste. If you do that, you will easily know whether the composer/aranger has written a detailed part that you need to play exactly, or he has written a rudimentary line that you can and should improve. You will see both.

Oh, and sometimes the bari and/or 4th trombone do double the bass line. The bari is OFTEN on the bottom of his range or playing the bass line, precisely because of his ability to articulate like crazy in that range.

 

[Groove Doctor]

*That* is the key secret to reading for big bands and music theatre!

I’d love to hear your experiences in reading ahead. Very little has even been posted here on TB about it, how to acquire it, the benefits, etc.

Hal Galper has a YouTube video on Forward Motion. It’s brilliant.

 

[Lionel Albert]

Also, is the 5 string bass the OP's talking about an added high-C string or a low-B string?

It's a low B but I only play it in a higher position to avoid stretching.
I rarely play lower than E or Eb, I stay in the regular range.

 

[Lionel Albert]

I even tried a low A because I also play the 7 string guitar and love that because I was afraid to be lost.
Honestly if the low string were thicker I would do that but it's clearly useless for what I'm supposed to do.
I really loved that deep sound ! Low C sounds deeper, I didn't say CEADG tuning but AEADG.

I'm sorry for my words, sometimes I seem arrogant, a bit harsh, English is not my native language.

Thanks all for your comments and gentleness.