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Playing in C with pianist

S

Squirefan01

May 14, 2006
212
6
Cape Cod, MA USA
#1
Hi all,

I was jamming with a few guys last weekend and we decided to just jam in Cmaj, so the pianist could jam in an easy chord to play on piano. So I started with some standard 1-3-5 pattern variations but eventually drifted to playing mostly the 3-4 (E-F). I thought this was fine as I only played notes in the Cmaj scale. Afterwards the pianist thought I was changing chords to E & F and said he was trying to keep up. Is that was I was doing? I was trying to create some tension by not dealing with the root in this jam. Should he have been able to keep playing in Cmaj even though I was ignoring the root but playing other notes in Cmaj?

Thanks
 
#2
Squirefan01 said:
eventually drifted to playing mostly the 3-4 (E-F)
Click to expand...

It depends, were you still landing C, E, or G on any of the ones? Not that it's mandatory, but if you found yourself mostly playing E and F, that could very well be taken as an altered progression.

You probably would have to work hard for it not to, as I'm trying to think of an example of what it might have sounded like.
 
#3
Most songs have a "chord progression" such as CMaj - FMaj - GMaj (which in music theory terms is called a "I-IV-V progression") or Dmin - G7 - CMaj (a "ii-V-I progression").

If the musicians do not all agree on the chord progression, then the jam isn't going to sound very good. Everybody needs to be on the same page, harmonically speaking.

It sounds like you are saying (correct me if I am wrong) that you and the pianist were trying to jam over a static CMaj chord, or in other words, a chord progression with only one chord. That is a pretty boring progression, and I don't blame you for trying to spice things up by introducing tension. ;)

The issue is that F is a pretty terrible-sounding choice of bass note under the CMaj chord that the pianist is playing. F is a half-step away from E (the 3rd of the CMaj chord) and that creates maybe more tension than you were hoping for.

My suggestion for your next jam is to choose a famous song with an interesting chord progression, as opposed to just jamming over the same CMaj chord over and over again.

Apologies if I've misunderstood the situation. :)
 
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#4
Thanks guys. Yes we were trying to keep it simple yet interesting :). I was going to try and find a pure Cmaj piano recording on YouTube or something and play something similar on bass along with it to see how it really sounds if the piano stays in Cmaj. The F was actually interesting in the moment, but we were also doing some ambient stuff and I had alot of pedal effects from my Ravish Sitar pedal. I thought it sounded great but in the moment I was not paying attention to the pianist trying to keep up with chord changes. Live & learn!
 
#5
If the goal is to just jam in a given key, without some agreed upon chord progression,
I would avoid the IV chord / 4th scale tone
The other notes can be heard as some kind of extension or alteration of a static harmony
but moving to the IV implies a chord/key change more strongly than any other note in the key
 
#6
A couple more thoughts since my original reply:
  1. The pianist could have moved to an F chord when you played the F note on your bass. That is a totally normal "thing" that many experienced improvisors would do in that situation, try to create a chord progression that matches what they are hearing from the other musicians. There is no "law" that the pianist needs to keep hammering out that static CMaj chord no matter what.
  2. Pentatonic scales can be your best friend when improvising over a static harmony.
 
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#10
Squirefan01 said:
?..jam in Cmaj...So I...drifted to playing mostly the 3-4 (E-F)...the pianist thought I was changing chords to E & F...Should he have been able to keep playing in Cmaj even though I was ignoring the root but playing other notes in Cmaj?
Click to expand...

Here’s how I understand your scenario:
  • You all agree to jam on a C Major chord (not the key of C Major—just the chord)
  • You start off playing just chord tones (C, E, and G)
  • At some point you begin alternating between The notes E and F
Here’s why that would be confusing:
  1. It’s a jam. People anticipate feeding off each other’s ideas. If anyone starts to change what they are doing, the assumption is probably “hey, we’re spontaneously creating—I’ll follow along”.
  2. You all agreed to play a C Major
  3. The lowest note determines tonality. If your whole band is playing a C Major chord, but you are nailing an A, you have just changed the chord to an A minor 7. If your whole band is playing a C Major chord and you are nailing an F you are implying an F Major 9 chord. If your whole band is playing a C Major chord, but you are nailing a D, you are implying C/D which has a D dominant sound.
  4. F is a non-chord tone. Not only is it not in the chord, it is also a half step from the E—which is in the chord. These two notes clash and create dissonance. If your whole band hears that too much, they will begin exploring something different to minimize the dissonance. (“OK, I’m not sure why he keeps chugging away on that F, but I’m switching to an F chord when he does, ‘Cause this sounds like we don’t know what we’re doing.”)
  5. It’s a jam. There’s no music. It’s spontaneous mutual creation and improvisation. If there were music listing a constant C Major chord, and you kept playing an F, the whole band would look at you like you were an insane saboteur.
 
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#11
Let's listen to the following track, kind of, "jamming" around Emin7, but played by very good musicians; therefore, we have lots "harmonic/melodic storms" :bassist: while "keeping up" with Emin7.



The next track is, kind of, jamming around Gmin(7), again with some harmonic developments.

 

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