Playing live in a room

[Blank_0101]

Long ago in a galaxy far, far away I dated a girl that would make extra money entering amateur contests that involved clothing removal. They were judged by audience response. We'd figure out who had the little meter and stand next to him during the judging. She made a tidy sum from our SPL manipulations (and a couple of her other redeeming qualities).

So You can have your cake and eat it too.

 

[CL400Peavey]

So You can have your cake and eat it too.

I dont think her name was Cake....

 

[Blank_0101]

I dont think her name was Cake....

There was a lot to love

 

[nutdog]

So You can have your cake and eat it too.

I'm not getting into the details.

 

[RAMUSIC]

Why cants I drink like Pickle?



Damn I thought you were an older guy

Haha nah, not so much. I'm just 21. And I definitely cannot drink like Pickle. I gag just smelling alcohol now xD

 

[dozicusmaximus]

I always really liked these.

 

[Blank_0101]

Haha nah, not so much. I'm just 21. And I definitely cannot drink like Pickle. I gag just smelling alcohol now xD

24 next month. Isn't alcohol in Utah like watered down to appease the Mormon population? Basing this off SLC punk.

 

[RAMUSIC]

24 next month. Isn't alcohol in Utah like watered down to appease the Mormon population? Basing this off SLC punk.

Beer is, strong liquor is as strong as anywhere else. But it's only sold in state liquor stores, along with regular strength beer sometimes. watered down beer is all that's in gas stations, grocery stores, ect.

It makes me really happy that people base their understanding of Utah off of that movie. Mostly because much of it is both pointed and accurate.

 

[davy4575]

Eating pickles can produce noise and that noise could potentially offend someone or harm someone so theyre going to have to get banned...also breathing too...

 

[Jeff Bonny]

I just don't like pickles so NOBODY gets pickles.
Yeah? Too bad.

 

[jthisdell]

What was this thread about again?...

 

[davy4575]

pickles in a loud room and the men who hate them

 

[bassboysam]

Your pickle probably needs a fearful.

 

[davy4575]

they get the job done Trace AH400 and acoustic B200h that is getting replaced with a Trace Ah500smx

 

[Korladis]

I am saying that in any public place, a bar, a concert hall, or wherever people are making a profit from entertainment, you do not have a right to play any sound, ANY SOUND at a level that can damage peoples' hearing. In a club environment, for example, the patrons may have imbibed in alcohol, which dulls their senses, and could cause them to be unaware of how loud the sound is. Furthermore, the average person may not realize the long-term results of listening to music past a certain level.

What gives you, as a musician or DJ, the right to damage human tissue? It's not a strawman. When you play at over 110 db, you are ruining peoples' hearing. You simply do not have the right to do this. Nanny state? I'm sorry, no one should be allowed to pollute the air you breathe, serve you poison in your water or food, or create a sound environment that is toxic.

You do not have the right to damage others' hearing.

This may be getting into some dicey territory, but you ever hear of BDSM? In such practices, people damage each other all the time. Consensually.

My lawnmower can damage people's hearing.

People have the choice of whether to go to our shows or not. We're not a bar cover band. We're not background music for people to drink to. The gigs we play, the bands are the main event.

It is people's choice whether to drink at these shows or not (not all of them are even at places with alcohol).

It is people's choice whether or not to protect their hearing. We do. We encourage others to do the same.

We have every right to play music as loud as the venue will allow us to. If people are worried about their hearing, they can use protection, or leave. Why is this hard for you to understand?

You have the right to leave the venue. You also have the right to do lots of other stupid things on a daily basis, and the right to remove yourself from situations where others are doing something you feel is dangerous for you.

Yep. Life is dangerous. Nobody is being forced to be at the venue or listen without ear plugs.

@mellowinman I personally miss having smoking in bars and I've been a nonsmoker for a decade. When the laws changed so did half the bars I went to. Now they serve nachos and watch ball games sometimes have like music before it was live music, pool and darts.
I'm specifically talking about dive bars, motorcycle clubs and rougher establishments. You know, the ones more inclined to have heavy music?
Sure there should have been nonsmoking bars before but we didn't need laws to change that and we don't needed decibel laws either. I get that no one wants to be "poisoned" unknowingly but folks need to take some responsibility for their actions too.

I actually prefer no smoking in bars, or restaurants, or venues. But I'm from an area that has been that way for a long time. Partly because, I can protect my hearing from loud music with ear plugs, but can't do anything really to protect myself from smoke while still being there.

This is also a reason why I think e-cigs/vaporizers are a great idea and should absolutely be allowed in bars and venues.

I'm not talking about me. I'm talking about others.

The others you are talking about, in this case, are people who, knowing the risks, choose to attend our shows. Most of them wear ear plugs. I think they can speak for themselves, too. They don't need you to crusade for them.

It doesn't matter.

No one has the right to damage anothers' hearing. If a guy tells you he wants to be murdered, you will still be charged with a crime. He may have known what he was asking, but the law says you cannot comply.

If you want to damage your hearing in the privacy of your own home, you have every right to do so, however, you do not have the right to damage the hearing of other people, whether they want you to or not.

Stop comparing hearing damage to murder. They're not even close to the same.

One of my friends engages in... well... things... with her lovers, that sometimes leave scars. This is their choice. And no one is getting charged with a crime.

You are being ridiculous.

Perhaps we don't have the "right" to damage our audience's hearing. But if they choose to come to our shows, knowing the kind of music we play, and choose not to wear ear plugs to protect themselves, then they have granted us that privilege.

Tell that to 90% of all live music venues, festivals, arenas, nascar events, shooting ranges, professional and college sporting events, NASA and about a hundred other examples that i can't think of right now.

Hard to believe so much violation of human rights is going on with only you to stand up for what's right.

Yep. Tons of things can damage hearing. Most places, people can wear hearing protection.

Excuse me?

I have the right to play the show that I am contracted to do. No one shows up to a S/D gig to listen not understanding what they are getting in to.

Every one has the personal responsibility to take care of themselves.

Yep. A venue that books us knows that it's going to be incredibly loud. The people coming to the show know that it's going to be incredibly loud.

There is a simple thing people can do to come to the show and leave with their hearing intact. That thing is wearing ear plugs.

It is not difficult.

This is just semantics, but a contract between two private entities doesn't circumvent noise ordinances or OSHA regulations. What about the people working at the venue? They're not party to your performance agreement, and they actually have a legitimate legal right to be protected from unsafe levels of exposure to high spl.

They can also wear ear plugs.

Doesn't work that well for employees in bars and other places where music is played though. I don't think I've ever seen a bartender with earplugs, let alone ear muffs. Which is the same problem as with smoking in bars and restaurants, the staff can't protect themselves and they get subjected to the noise/smoke for way longer times than their customers.

So ... now I'm just waiting for someone to pull the "they are free to find another job" card ...

Maybe because you don't go to many stoner/doom shows. I do. I see bartenders and security wearing ear plugs all the damn time.

You can't protect yourself from someone else's smoking while remaining in the same vicinity. You can protect yourself from high SPL, by wearing ear plugs. And employees do. Most of the employees at the Oakland Metro, where I saw Yob, on saturday night, were wearing ear plugs. Because ear plugs are available, and the employees aren't stupid. The Metro has loud shows often. I don't know if they're the ones who provide the ear plugs, though it wouldn't surprise me if they were and the supply was just another business expense, but most of the people working there seem to have decided that it's a good idea to wear them.

As for "well, how can they understand what the patrons are saying?" which some might ask...

Bartenders often work in loud places. Even when the sound isn't loud enough to cause hearing damage, it can still be loud enough, even in regular bars, that there's difficulty understanding people. In that job, people eventually get good at picking out what they need to do their job and recognizing non-verbal cues. Also, I've found that ear plugs actually make it easier, not harder, to pick out human voices when there's loud music going on.

I'm in the 'reasonable volume' camp but these doom guys are right. The venues in which they perform are 'loud' venues. They are marketing 'loud.' The fans want it. The venues supply it. It's what happens there. If you go to work there it's on you to protect yourself from it if you feel the need.

Precisely. This faux-concern that Mellowinman is whining about gets tiring. Music volume is a non-issue, because the hazard can be mitigated so easily.

What genres of music do you play?
I think that the crux of what is being debated is: What is the purpose of the show?
For a cover band, let's say, the job is to primarily keep patrons in the venue, and buying food and and/or alcohol. That is most efficiently done by playing at a volume where the patrons are comfortable and will stay in the venue and continue to imbibe. (I suppose this can be applied to any genre of cover band.)
With the S/D crowd, there isn't the primary goal of keeping as many patrons in the venue as possible. The music is original, the fan base is much smaller, and the fans aren't necessarily there to eat/drink/socialize, they're there to heard those specific bands/songs.

Indeed.

We're not background music for people to hang out and drink and socialize to. At stoner/doom shows, the music is the main event. That's why people are there. The Oakland Metro, to use the same example, is a music venue, not a bar that sometimes has music. If Yob hadn't played saturday night, someone else would have. Or, if no one had, there would be no one at the Metro, and it might not even have been open.

You are assuming that attendance at a "loud" music event must inevitably lead to hearing damage when this is obviously not the case.

By your logic here's a partial list of things that should not be allowed due to their volume level:
Rock Concerts
Gunfire
Jets Taking Off
Cheering At Sports Events
Chainsaws And Lawnmowers
Emergency Vehicle Sirens
Helicopters
Countless Pieces Of Industrial Machinery
Race Cars And Motorcycles
Fireworks
Trains
Ambient City Noise
et cetera ad nauseum

Then there are the other non-volume related hazards that should be restricted some of them potentially much more damaging than excessive volume.
Smoking Tobacco
Drinking Alcohol
Operating Motor Vehicles
Working With Toxic Materials
Sexual Intercourse
Working With Hazardous Machinery
Fall Hazard
Threat Of Violence
et cetera ad nauseum

Prohibiting the above would prohibit: fire fighting, policing, a great deal of manufacturing, farming, continuance of the species, participation in many sports, driving to work et cetera ad nauseum. All of these things can be avoided by choice, reasonably protected against, or are of such benefit to society that the risk is acceptable.

You do not have the right to restrict the actions of another based on the potential harm those actions might cause when all these criteria are met:
A person will only be subjected to those actions by choice.
When those actions can be fully protected against with commonly available safety equipment.
When there is arguable benefit to those actions.
....in other words when it's none of your ****ing business.

And then there's the fact that if you play amplified music of any sort you're being an incredible hypocrite denouncing "hazardous" volume. Unless you're playing at less than 90 decibels (which if you're playing amplified rock or similar music you most likely aren't) then you are certainly presenting your audience a hazardous volume level.
In the words of the sages, "We've already established what you are my dear now we're just dickering over the price."

Yep. The most dangerous thing at a venue isn't the music, it's the alcohol on sale.

The hazards of loud music can be fully protected with ear plugs. Ear plugs are not expensive, and often times, even available at the venue.

Tons of every day things are loud enough to potentially damage your hearing. Tons of jobs require exposure to potentially hazardous sound levels. If you have such a job, whether your employer does the right thing and provides you with protection or not, you need to be aware of that hazard and protect yourself accordingly.

 

[hover]

I once made a loud trouser-cough that scared my dog. I don't think he ever recovered. There was a trust broken that day.

 

[dozicusmaximus]

Gas mask, Sartori

 

[Korladis]

Gas mask, Sartori

Cool, but a lot more expensive and impractical than ear plugs. Ear plugs fit into a pocket and are cheap.

Also, I can drink while wearing ear plugs.

Gas mask makes that a lot more complex.

 

[CL400Peavey]

Cool, but a lot more expensive and impractical than ear plugs. Ear plugs fit into a pocket and are cheap.

Also, I can drink while wearing ear plugs.

Gas mask makes that a lot more complex.

Yeah don't get in the way of my scotch.

 

[Jeff Bonny]

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]