Playing live in a room

[mellowinman]

Coincidentally in America those other people have the same right to leave.

It isnt like anyone shows up to some nice sunday brunch, ties people to their chairs, and then sonically assaults them.

I reiterate with: Dont like it, then leave. Walk out.

It doesn't matter.

No one has the right to damage anothers' hearing. If a guy tells you he wants to be murdered, you will still be charged with a crime. He may have known what he was asking, but the law says you cannot comply.

If you want to damage your hearing in the privacy of your own home, you have every right to do so, however, you do not have the right to damage the hearing of other people, whether they want you to or not.

 

[SteveHeissner]

Interesting thread. I believe my own band is way too loud in certain small venues. The sound man likes it that way. I wear ear plugs and this helps manage the stage volume for me. But I do feel sorry for the bar patrons. No wonder they drink so much at our gigs.

 

[lbbc]

I played in a classic rock band for nearly 15 years. We were pretty tight and good, if I say so myself. Then the drummer (good one, but heavy handed) decided we needed more speakers, more amps, powered subs etc. Prior we were using speakers "on a stick" and vocal monitors and were booked everywhere, We got more gear, hired a soundman, got louder....you get the picture....less gigs because we were too loud for the venues where we had been booked for years.
Fast forward 2 years....now playing without the drummer (same other 3 musicians) and back to "speakers on a stick" and we are busier than ever. Faster set up and tear down and better venues. Hmmm...louder does not equal better!

 

[SteveHeissner]

I played in a classic rock band for nearly 15 years. We were pretty tight and good, if I say so myself. Then the drummer (good one, but heavy handed) decided we needed more speakers, more amps, powered subs etc. Prior we were using speakers "on a stick" and vocal monitors and were booked everywhere, We got more gear, hired a soundman, got louder....you get the picture....less gigs because we were too loud for the venues where we had been booked for years.
Fast forward 2 years....now playing without the drummer (same other 3 musicians) and back to "speakers on a stick" and we are busier than ever. Faster set up and tear down and better venues. Hmmm...louder does not equal better!

Amen brother!

 

[CL400Peavey]

It doesn't matter.

No one has the right to damage anothers' hearing. If a guy tells you he wants to be murdered, you will still be charged with a crime. He may have known what he was asking, but the law says you cannot comply.

If you want to damage your hearing in the privacy of your own home, you have every right to do so, however, you do not have the right to damage the hearing of other people, whether they want you to or not.

I dont forcibly put anyone in a situation where their hearing would be damaged. They choose to enter that situation on their own.

 

[CL400Peavey]

I played in a classic rock band for nearly 15 years. We were pretty tight and good, if I say so myself. Then the drummer (good one, but heavy handed) decided we needed more speakers, more amps, powered subs etc. Prior we were using speakers "on a stick" and vocal monitors and were booked everywhere, We got more gear, hired a soundman, got louder....you get the picture....less gigs because we were too loud for the venues where we had been booked for years.
Fast forward 2 years....now playing without the drummer (same other 3 musicians) and back to "speakers on a stick" and we are busier than ever. Faster set up and tear down and better venues. Hmmm...louder does not equal better!

Once again I think you get much different gigs, at very different venues.

That doesnt equal better either.

 

[mellowinman]

I dont forcibly put anyone in a situation where their hearing would be damaged. They choose to enter that situation on their own.

We're just saying the same things now. Once again, even if they choose to have their hearing damaged, you still do not have the right to damage their hearing.

 

[CL400Peavey]

We're just saying the same things now. Once again, even if they choose to have their hearing damaged, you still do not have the right to damage their hearing.

So then what are you saying?

Because it sounds like you are saying I dont have the right to play loud.

 

[The_Janitor]

The idea that anyone should endanger the hearing of patrons, unless said patrons wear ear protection is not only absurd, it's criminal.

You don't have the right to create levels of noise that damage human tissue.

That's not debatable. You simply do not have that right.

Tell that to 90% of all live music venues, festivals, arenas, nascar events, shooting ranges, professional and college sporting events, NASA and about a hundred other examples that i can't think of right now.

Hard to believe so much violation of human rights is going on with only you to stand up for what's right.

 

[mellowinman]

So then what are you saying?

Because it sounds like you are saying I dont have the right to play loud.

Outside of your house? You don't. You really, honestly do not have the right to play past a certain level of db. I would say probably anything over 110 db and you have wandered into an area where you are violating the rights of others.

 

[mellowinman]

Tell that to 90% of all live music venues, festivals, arenas, nascar events, shooting ranges, professional and college sporting events, NASA and about a hundred other examples that i can't think of right now.

Hard to believe so much violation of human rights is going on with only you to stand up for what's right.

I don't understand this post. Many live music venues, all over the world are taking this pretty seriously, and limiting the level of volume, due to the liability. I am not aware of any sporting event that causes hearing damage. Most shooting ranges require serious hearing protection. I can only imagine how NASA fits into all this.

 

[The_Janitor]

Oh yeah, airports, med flight and police helicopters, heavy industry, road construction projects and people with bangin' car stereos.

 

[CL400Peavey]

Outside of your house? You don't. You really, honestly do not have the right to play past a certain level of db. I would say probably anything over 110 db and you have wandered into an area where you are violating the rights of others.

Excuse me?

I have the right to play the show that I am contracted to do. No one shows up to a S/D gig to listen not understanding what they are getting in to.

Every one has the personal responsibility to take care of themselves.

 

[hdracer]

Tell that to 90% of all live music venues, festivals, arenas, nascar events, shooting ranges, professional and college sporting events, NASA and about a hundred other examples that i can't think of right now.

Hard to believe so much violation of human rights is going on with only you to stand up for what's right.

+1
Ever been to a football game in a enclosed stadium?
A Vikings game at the Metrodome is louder then any band I've heard.
Or go to a NHRA drag race. The Top Fuel or Funnycars will blow your ears out.

 

[10cc]

We have volume issues in my band. My drummer isn't a very hard-hitter. But the guitarist is ridiculous in that he absolutely insists on using two half stacks even in tiny pubs. As the bass player, I have two choices: set my level to the guitar player and drown out the drums; or play to the drums and be drowned out by the guitarist. Also, I think the singer has hearing problems because he seems to need inordinate amounts of painful treble. Of course, at this volume level, the treble results in feedback.

They're fantastic players. But volume-wise, we're a Blink182 song away from sounding like a high school battle of the bands.

Mascis is still too loud!

 

[lowfreq33]

Excuse me?

I have the right to play the show that I am contracted to do. No one shows up to a S/D gig to listen not understanding what they are getting in to.

Every one has the personal responsibility to take care of themselves.

This is just semantics, but a contract between two private entities doesn't circumvent noise ordinances or OSHA regulations. What about the people working at the venue? They're not party to your performance agreement, and they actually have a legitimate legal right to be protected from unsafe levels of exposure to high spl.

 

[mbelue]

This is just semantics, but a contract between two private entities doesn't circumvent noise ordinances or OSHA regulations. What about the people working at the venue? They're not party to your performance agreement, and they actually have a legitimate legal right to be protected from unsafe levels of exposure to high spl.

In every place I worked as an industrial electrician I've "had the right to be protected from unsafe levels of exposure to high spl."
None of them turned off the things making the high SPL. I was given earplugs and in some circumstances earplugs and ear muffs. The employees are not entitled to less noise. They are entitled to more protection.

 

[CL400Peavey]

This is just semantics, but a contract between two private entities doesn't circumvent noise ordinances or OSHA regulations. What about the people working at the venue? They're not party to your performance agreement, and they actually have a legitimate legal right to be protected from unsafe levels of exposure to high spl.

You're right. They can write off ear plugs on their taxes. It is a known risk at that venue. No one works there with out that understanding.

 

[petrus61]

I will say this: if I can hear myself and the rest of the band and the audience isn't complaining and is getting an at least decently balanced mix, I don't care how it gets done. There is a certain point where amps (guitar and bass) need to be in order to achieve a pleasant and musical tonal range that serves a particular style of music. If a balance can be struck, the rest is gravy. There is something magical about seeing a band with no PA support aside from vocals that still manages to get a good sound. IME, this tends to be smaller rooms or larger ones that are full of bodies. Sound checking to an empty room is hardly ever a picture of the final product when there's no PA support and there's really no better sound when a band manages to strike that balance, whether on purpose of not.

 

[FretNoMore]

In every place I worked as an industrial electrician I've "had the right to be protected from unsafe levels of exposure to high spl."
None of them turned off the things making the high SPL. I was given earplugs and in some circumstances earplugs and ear muffs. The employees are not entitled to less noise. They are entitled to more protection.

Doesn't work that well for employees in bars and other places where music is played though. I don't think I've ever seen a bartender with earplugs, let alone ear muffs. Which is the same problem as with smoking in bars and restaurants, the staff can't protect themselves and they get subjected to the noise/smoke for way longer times than their customers.

So ... now I'm just waiting for someone to pull the "they are free to find another job" card ...