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Playing live in a room

#141
Korladis said:
I play with both doom metal and folk/rock bands. I almost never, ever have PA support in either of those cases. In some cases, we've had to bring a PA.


Neither Sevendust nor Megadeth are doom bands.

People going to stoner doom bands expect volumes that are very high even by rock, punk, and metal standards.
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I'm actually not sure what this discussion is even about anymore. The OP was about a band killing the room and somehow it's morphed into this meaningless stoner/doom thing. Play as loud as you want WHATEVER your chosen genre but at some point you're limited by your PA and the acoustics of the room. You wanna say "it's gotta be THIS loud, shag the room and the PA" go right ahead....ultimately you're only doing your music a disservice. I only mentioned those two bands (and I could list a bunch more I've worked with) because they play loud (loud transcends genre) but are pro enough to.....yes, here it comes again, not to kill the room or clip the PA.

So what's more disappointing only having it be really loud (as opposed to mind numbing loud) or have incredibly awful sound? If you've got the room and the PA where you don't have to choose fine but if you do the choice seems obvious. Dude, you know this. I've read a lot of your posts over the years you're not a dumbass by any means. What gives here?
 
#143
Jeff Bonny said:
I'm actually not sure what this discussion is even about anymore. The OP was about a band killing the room and somehow it's morphed into this meaningless stoner/doom thing. Play as loud as you want WHATEVER your chosen genre but at some point you're limited by your PA and the acoustics of the room. You wanna say "it's gotta be THIS loud, **** the room and the PA" go right ahead....ultimately you're only doing your music a disservice. I only mentioned those two bands (and I could list a bunch more I've worked with) because they play loud (loud transcends genre) but are pro enough to.....yes, here it comes again, not to kill the room or clip the PA.

So what's more disappointing only having it be really loud (as opposed to mind numbing loud) or have incredibly awful sound? If you've got the room and the PA where you don't have to choose fine but if you do the choice seems obvious. Dude, you know this. I've read a lot of your posts over the years you're not a dumbass by any means. What gives here?
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It is the assumption that we are killing the room, or clipping the PA, or sounding awful.

Playing loud doesnt have to mean any of those things.
 
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#145
Jeff Bonny said:
I'm actually not sure what this discussion is even about anymore. The OP was about a band killing the room and somehow it's morphed into this meaningless stoner/doom thing. Play as loud as you want WHATEVER your chosen genre but at some point you're limited by your PA and the acoustics of the room. You wanna say "it's gotta be THIS loud, **** the room and the PA" go right ahead....ultimately you're only doing your music a disservice. I only mentioned those two bands (and I could list a bunch more I've worked with) because they play loud (loud transcends genre) but are pro enough to.....yes, here it comes again, not to kill the room or clip the PA.

So what's more disappointing only having it be really loud (as opposed to mind numbing loud) or have incredibly awful sound? If you've got the room and the PA where you don't have to choose fine but if you do the choice seems obvious. Dude, you know this. I've read a lot of your posts over the years you're not a dumbass by any means. What gives here?
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Just defending my craft. Most people don't like it when others say they're bad musicians, immature, idiots, etc.

And yeah, to keep up with a band like Sleep or Sea of Bones, you have to have a pretty decent PA for the vocals. But if you're not putting much else in it besides vocals, which, if you're not in a big room, and it's a stoner/doom or shoegaze show, you really shouldn't be, you have more to work with there.

You always have to EQ your rig differently if you're in a weird room. Being incredibly loud doesn't change that.

People were bashing those who play loud, and acting as if there is some objective measurement of too loud. One of them called us out specifically. We responded.
 
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#147
Korladis said:
Hell no.
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Now that's more like it. Try it with and exclamation point.:laugh:

mbelue said:
I disagree with your count.

I stopped after someone disagreed with the pile-on. There are more. Sure only one pointed a finger directly but a slur is a slur.
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I still count 1. But even if you are correct there are people that aren't going to like your music no matter what it is. I just didn't realize the SD gang had such delicate sensibilities hiding behind all that volume. Now I know. Smart, sensitive and serious.

Personally I'd never go near a stoner doom band but I'd be willing to bet a bunch of them don't know how to eq, frequency slot, etc., and end up sounding like crap, just like any other genre.
 
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#151
nutdog said:
Now that's more like it. Try it with and exclamation point.:laugh:



I still count 1. But even if you are correct there are people that aren't going to like your music no matter what it is. I just didn't realize the SD gang had such delicate sensibilities hiding behind all that volume. Now I know. Smart, sensitive and serious.

Personally I'd never go near a stoner doom band but I'd be willing to bet a bunch of them don't know how to eq, frequency slot, etc., and end up sounding like crap, just like any other genre.
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Sure. But no more than any other genre. And not because they're loud, but because of not knowing how to do those things.

And I know you're making fun of us for taking offense, but as a matter of fact, of the various hard rock/metal genres, the SD folks actually are kinda the least "crazy," or "out of control," on average, in my experience. Lots of the people I've met are actually very quiet offstage. There are notable exceptions, of course, and most of them do smoke a lot of weed, it's true. But still, there are lots of folks who are really dedicated to what they do.

CL400Peavey said:
Sure.

But from my experience, the guys in the S/D realm spend a lot of time getting their sound the way they like it, and figuring out how to get it across to their audience in an effective manner.
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Yep. Most of the good bands will notice if a mix isn't working in rehearsal, and so have figured out that they can't all be sitting in every single frequency.
 
#153
Jeff Bonny said:
Copy that. I don't like to play real loud anymore myself but I'm certainly not anti-loud. Just anti-poopyloud.
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Well yeah.

No matter how loud or quiet you play, you're going to sound better if you know how to make the sounds of each instrument work together. If you're playing at a place where you're through the PA, the soundperson can fix this to some extent, but it's still way easier if you've already figured out how to get a good mix just with your instruments (including amplifiers) by themselves.

I've heard bands way quieter than the doom bands I listen to sound really bad and annoying, because they're all stepping on each other's toes, sonically.

The only differences with doom band volumes are that a lot of times there is no way for the soundperson to counteract the band's bad EQing (that is, if the soundperson is even willing to do so... not all are), and the problems caused by said errors are a lot more noticeable.
 
#155
Mvilmany said:
Ok... So I'm getting the impression that some people think it's a good idea to subject human ears to overwhelmingly loud sound.
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It's not even a little bit about that. It's about the quality of the sound. The OP was about a band playing loud in a concrete bunker and sucking. I worked several years in a club with a lot of wood and a 36,000w PA that in the right hands could sound excellent at blisteringly loud volume. Some music just isn't convincing if it's not hitting you in the chest. Wear earplugs....or stay home.
 
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#156
Jeff Bonny said:
It's not even a little bit about that. It's about the quality of the sound. The OP was about a band playing loud in a concrete bunker and sucking. I worked several years in a club with a lot of wood and a 36,000w PA that in the right hands could sound excellent at blisteringly loud volume. Some music just isn't convincing if it's not hitting you in the chest. Wear earplugs....or stay home.
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Yep. I've heard bands that were nowhere near loud enough for me to need ear plugs sound annoying and crappy because of their mix.

Of course, there are some rooms that are very hard to make sound good at all.
 
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#158
The idea that anyone should endanger the hearing of patrons, unless said patrons wear ear protection is not only absurd, it's criminal.

You don't have the right to create levels of noise that damage human tissue.

That's not debatable. You simply do not have that right.
 
#159
mellowinman said:
The idea that anyone should endanger the hearing of patrons, unless said patrons wear ear protection is not only absurd, it's criminal.

You don't have the right to create levels of noise that damage human tissue.

That's not debatable. You simply do not have that right.
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volume is serious business.
 
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#160
mellowinman said:
The idea that anyone should endanger the hearing of patrons, unless said patrons wear ear protection is not only absurd, it's criminal.

You don't have the right to create levels of noise that damage human tissue.

That's not debatable. You simply do not have that right.
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Nice straw man. No one has the right to force you to listen to music at dangerous volumes but last I checked no one is forcing you to go to or remain at a loud show. If no one was allowed to do anything dangerous the world would be a whole lot less fun so lighten up. As for staff it's just like working in any other hazardous environment you use the necessary safety protection.
 
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