Playing open...What should I do?

[tZer]

I have to admit after reading all this that I am a bit of a 'know-it-all' too sometimes... imagine that! And I just realized how some of my comments to my guitar player(s) or drummer(s) might be taken badly... hmmmm... They seem like innocuous little suggestions wrapped in the guise of "just talkin' music" - but they could easily be taken as being critical of their technique or abilities.

"Hey man... how about one of those really cool hi-hat parts there? You know - how those really killer jazz drummers do it... I remember seeing Buddy Rich playing on top AND on bottom of the hi-hat doing this really killer rhythmic....." ----SKREEEEECCCCCHHHHH!!!! SHUT UP!!! YOU'RE THE BASS PLAYER!!!!!!

Fortunately for me, most of my musician friends are also very close friends that I have known for years and we can have those sort of conversations knowing that there is no feeling of disrespect for each other's abilities involved. We have been talking like that to each other since high school. And I actually love it when someone has a suggestion for me. I tend to find my way to a part pretty quickly and sometimes am not sure if what I am doing is "gettin' it" - It would be good to hear someone offer up a thought about what I am doing to be more sure that is what everyone wants to hear.

 

[txbasschik]

I have to admit after reading all this that I am a bit of a 'know-it-all' too sometimes... imagine that! And I just realized how some of my comments to my guitar player(s) or drummer(s) might be taken badly... hmmmm... They seem like innocuous little suggestions wrapped in the guise of "just talkin' music" - but they could easily be taken as being critical of their technique or abilities.

"Hey man... how about one of those really cool hi-hat parts there? You know - how those really killer jazz drummers do it... I remember seeing Buddy Rich playing on top AND on bottom of the hi-hat doing this really killer rhythmic....." ----SKREEEEECCCCCHHHHH!!!! SHUT UP!!! YOU'RE THE BASS PLAYER!!!!!!

Fortunately for me, most of my musician friends are also very close friends that I have known for years and we can have those sort of conversations knowing that there is no feeling of disrespect for each other's abilities involved. We have been talking like that to each other since high school. And I actually love it when someone has a suggestion for me. I tend to find my way to a part pretty quickly and sometimes am not sure if what I am doing is "gettin' it" - It would be good to hear someone offer up a thought about what I am doing to be more sure that is what everyone wants to hear.

Te nada, dear...you've shown wonderful good humor, which goes a long way.

I chatted with the drummer about this. He said he was sorry he caused me so much anxiety this close to a major gig. We agreed that there is always tension when such things come up. He appreciated that I was trying to use open strings when I could (he noticed), and I appreciated that he didn't keep pushing me about it.

And then he had to repeat that with the singer, but more strongly, and with poorer results. When she can't sing or play something easily, right away, she tends to just change the song and then insist that this is the way the song really is. She'll sing my harmony line because she wants to, so I am always having to compensate for that, on the fly. She'll cut the number of measures in a progression because she thinks that's how it goes. When we count the measures and show her that such and such a passage needs to be 8 measures long, rather than six, for example, to allow the progression to end logically (cover tunes), she gets angry with both of us and feels we are attacking her.

When we tried to move on to something else, and he said, "Well, sometimes tension is unavoidable when you are trying to work out a song, its NBD", she refused to continue.

Practice ended on a sour note, but not because of the rhythm section. The drum and bass are at peace, now.

Cherie

 

[tZer]

Drama - what would life be without it? Uh, easier!

Has the singer ever served time in a cover band? I have frequently run into musicians who have never done covers. It always amazes me how truly little they know or understand about 'proper' song stuff - structure, timing, all that... They frequently say things like, "I don't want to corrupt my essence by letting other music influence me..." BUUUUULLLLLSSSSHHHHH******!!!!! LOL

I think anyone who wants to be in a band that plays originals should be required to play for at least one year in a cover band. They should have to do 4-set shows until 1 am, load in and out and be able to not only play the songs on the list but be able to improvise requests. - oh, but I rant... I rant...

 

[txbasschik]

Drama - what would life be without it? Uh, easier!

Has the singer ever served time in a cover band? I have frequently run into musicians who have never done covers. It always amazes me how truly little they know or understand about 'proper' song stuff - structure, timing, all that... They frequently say things like, "I don't want to corrupt my essence by letting other music influence me..." BUUUUULLLLLSSSSHHHHH******!!!!! LOL

I think anyone who wants to be in a band that plays originals should be required to play for at least one year in a cover band. They should have to do 4-set shows until 1 am, load in and out and be able to not only play the songs on the list but be able to improvise requests. - oh, but I rant... I rant...

That's the wacky thing...this is mostly a cover band. There are maybe six originals, at this time. She's always done covers. And she's had this band for a while, with a different lineup.

Evidently, no one ever stood up to her and said, "It needs to be this way...."

No backup singer ever stood up and said, "If you want me to sing the harmony line correctly, then you should stick to the melody. If you want to switch parts, then we need to sit down and work out where you want to do that, so I know what to sing." (Her answer, "But I always sing it like that." Well...you have a backup singer/bassist now. I need to know exactly what you want, or I can't do my job.)

She's a stauesque, strong-willed woman, and I guess people just always let her have her way. I don't tell her that she has to play every lead *exactly* like the original, or sing every part *exactly* the same as on the cd. But her rhythm section needs some consistency from her. If the lead is 8 measures, then play 8 measures of whatever you want, we don't care, so long as the rhythm section can complete their progression. I don't care if she wants to switch around from melody to harmony, but I need to know what *I* need to do to make room for it.

Prima donnas...I thought I was done with them when my chick band broke up. Silly me! I do my best to accomodate my bandmates, within reason, and I try hard to be respectful and not create confrontation. So does the drummer. Its a good thing we can keep cool, because that singer has quite a temper.

Cherie

 

[tZer]

Funny thing is that you and the drummer will probably become really tight now! A real twist base on how this thread began!

Nothing like a common enemy to make allies, huh?

I am on the verge of baggin' it with my current band for similar, but different reasons. Singer/Leader is FILLED with drama these days... his relationship, his health, his 'recreational activities', him, him, him... Marsha, Marsha, Marsha! -

Not the last staw, but one that is making the camel's back really bend came recently when we were sitting around having a beer. We frequently have substitue drummers and one sub in particular is an absolute trainwreck of a drummer! Horrible. No sense of time, no sense of groove, barely knows the songs... Everybody in the band who plays with him thinks (knows) he blows... Except Tim (leader/singer/guitarplayer)! We clearly are on different planets, music-wise... I gotta get out of this place, if it's the last thing I ever do...

 

[txbasschik]

Funny thing is that you and the drummer will probably become really tight now! A real twist base on how this thread began!

Nothing like a common enemy to make allies, huh?

I am on the verge of baggin' it with my current band for similar, but different reasons. Singer/Leader is FILLED with drama these days... his relationship, his health, his 'recreational activities', him, him, him... Marsha, Marsha, Marsha! -

Not the last staw, but one that is making the camel's back really bend came recently when we were sitting around having a beer. We frequently have substitue drummers and one sub in particular is an absolute trainwreck of a drummer! Horrible. No sense of time, no sense of groove, barely knows the songs... Everybody in the band who plays with him thinks (knows) he blows... Except Tim (leader/singer/guitarplayer)! We clearly are on different planets, music-wise... I gotta get out of this place, if it's the last thing I ever do...

Yeah, there's enough drama in life, period. No need to make it worse by indulging prima donnas!

I feel for the drummer. He lives with the singer, so when she's on a tear, he has to put up with it far more than I. We do try hard not to be confrontational, but...man, she takes everything personally.

Sounds like your singer is a far bigger mess than mine, though! Marsha, indeed!

With Jan's problems!

Cherie

 

[urbannerds]

First off, what are you listening to a drummer for? Only take advice from musicians.(Sorry, couldn't resist the stab)

Second, it sounds like you are playing fine, use the open strings when you wish to and when it musically makes sense for you.

Never let someone, especially someone who doesn't play your instrument , tell you how to play. I had a trumpet player telling me to play the strings harder a few months ago and I told him to F-off.

 

[morf]

You certainly dont have to play any way you dont want to play.. but playing open is fun once you get the hang of it, you should practice it, show him you can do it, then just play your 5er and have a blast

 

[txbasschik]

You certainly dont have to play any way you dont want to play.. but playing open is fun once you get the hang of it, you should practice it, show him you can do it, then just play your 5er and have a blast

My 5er is no bueno por caca, sug. I tried to fix it myself, and messed it up more. Did it during the danged Superbowl, and...

I need to take it down to a little repair shop I know in Austin and git'r'done.

I do like my 4banger, though. I feel like if I can use my open strings just a *little* better, there, I'll have that much more to work with. It doesn't hurt to keep this drummer happy, either. He is often my ally in rhythm problems in the band. While I won't be abandoning the 5th, he *does* tend to put the music first. Acquiring a new skill that helps the band does no harm.



Cherie

 

[tZer]

...

*** Slipping off thread-topic for just a second***

I haven't seen a pic of Giant Robot for years!!! Good old Johnny Sokko (sp?) - I never understood why those monsters didn't just kick ol' G'robot in the nuts while he was going through his 'cheerleader' routines to activate his various weapons, though...

***Ok, thread-topic tape applied***

Yeah, what they said!

 

[txbasschik]

*** Slipping off thread-topic for just a second***

I haven't seen a pic of Giant Robot for years!!! Good old Johnny Sokko (sp?) - I never understood why those monsters didn't just kick ol' G'robot in the nuts while he was going through his 'cheerleader' routines to activate his various weapons, though...

***Ok, thread-topic tape applied***

Yeah, what they said!

I haven't seen Giant Robot in a long time, but I have seen Rubber Robot.

Cherie

 

[addylewis]

My philosophy: "only fret when its absolutely necessary"

I use open whenever I can...but sometimes I need to fret on the 5th depending on what I'm playing - quite a lot of my bands stuff is rock'n'roll (i.e. more like Elvis and Little Richard NOT Led Zeppelin and AC/DC) so I usually play open whenever I can, but if I'm doing something which needs that little extra boom and depth I'll play it higher up...simple as that.

If anyone whose just starting wants this extra "depth" then go on...play one-stringed basslines right up the neck, it really doesn't make you any better...now if you COMBINE that with using the open strings you will have a MUCH better technique...

 

[fcleff]

My philosophy: Play your style.

James Jamerson didn't use open string a lot. Anyone here tried to play Bernadette lately?

 

[Eggman]

Our drummer is also a very good guitar player. He once made a suggestion to our lead guitarist and the guitarist exploded - said I don't tell you how to play drums and we don't have room for another guitarist. Boy - I thought there was going to be fisticuffs.

I agree with all - you are the bass player - play your bass - listen to suggestions and use or employ different techniques are you see fit.

And then tell your drummer you think the sound of his snare or hi-hat sounds off or that you don't like where he puts kick-drum beats. That'll drive him nuts.

 

[txbasschik]

My philosophy: "only fret when its absolutely necessary"

I use open whenever I can...but sometimes I need to fret on the 5th depending on what I'm playing - quite a lot of my bands stuff is rock'n'roll (i.e. more like Elvis and Little Richard NOT Led Zeppelin and AC/DC) so I usually play open whenever I can, but if I'm doing something which needs that little extra boom and depth I'll play it higher up...simple as that.

If anyone whose just starting wants this extra "depth" then go on...play one-stringed basslines right up the neck, it really doesn't make you any better...now if you COMBINE that with using the open strings you will have a MUCH better technique...

I've been doing the opposite...only play open when absolutely necessary. When I fret, I make fewer mistakes, and the stretches are easier for my hands. And I LOVE that boomy sound!

But, to help my ally, I am trying to use open strings more. However, I think I should only do that when it really makes sense for *me*, not him.

I'm certainly not playing "one-string basslines". I use open E and A when I have to keep the notes in the lowest registers. But when I fret, I use all the strings more easily. It makes it easier for me to walk up or down with no errors, and a fluid feel.

Cherie

 

[txbasschik]

My philosophy: Play your style.

James Jamerson didn't use open string a lot. Anyone here tried to play Bernadette lately?

A bassist friend and I were discussing Jamerson yesterday. I should study more of his work!

Cherie

 

[txbasschik]

Our drummer is also a very good guitar player. He once made a suggestion to our lead guitarist and the guitarist exploded - said I don't tell you how to play drums and we don't have room for another guitarist. Boy - I thought there was going to be fisticuffs.

I agree with all - you are the bass player - play your bass - listen to suggestions and use or employ different techniques are you see fit.

And then tell your drummer you think the sound of his snare or hi-hat sounds off or that you don't like where he puts kick-drum beats. That'll drive him nuts.

LOL...yeah, that might make him nuts, alright.

I, thankfully, did not explode at him. He seems to have accepted that I have my own style, and appreciates that I am making the attempt to expand my skills so that I can play a wider variety of styles. Detante, but friendlier than the Cold War.

Cherie

 

[morf]

John Paul Jones played alot with opens... I'm learning the lemon song (what a great song to learn on bass! I'm having so much fun! ) and you can tell how complicated/impossible it could be without playing opens on alot of parts.

 

[txbasschik]

John Paul Jones played alot with opens... I'm learning the lemon song (what a great song to learn on bass! I'm having so much fun! ) and you can tell how complicated/impossible it could be without playing opens on alot of parts.

In one of his last columns for Bass Guitar, he wrote a lesson on that song, specifically. Very complicated! Yes...he could not have done it w/o open strings.

's why I've decided to try to at least incorporate them when I can. Not totally abandoning my technique, but I do need to learn this.

Cherie

 

[morf]

Add it to your technique, instead of replacing. It'll make your life easier in the long run.

edit: I didnt he wrote a lesson on that song, maybe I should give that a read... I can play most of the song, but he changes riffs quite often and its hard to remember every note. Would defintely like a couple of tips of how he came up with it, would help clear up some things.