I could see using a stand in a doubling situation where there is no space to put the bass down and little time to do it but outside of that it would be a definite no for me, but whatever floats your boat by all means do it.
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Double Bass Playing Stand for DB
- Thread starter Randy Howard
- Start date
It appears I have touched on a sensitive topic. Didn't mean to do that. I have been playing for over 20 years, mostly for folk dances. Lots of dances. I play jazz at home and love doing that. I do not think I need to justify my needs here. I was just asking if anyone made a a playing stand. If you read my original post you will see that.
i agree - at first it seemed intimidating after using the ingles stand for many years. Steve Swan encouraged me to switch and I’m happy I did.
Even now, I always take a look below to make sure the end pin is in the “V”
to me the only nerve you struck was with your opinion that "teachers are wrong and you know better" (paraphrased of course). That is the sentiment that has riled people. To claim that you were "just asking if anyone made a a playing stand." isn't the complete story. In fact AGCurry answered you succinctly with his opinion. If you really were after a simple answer to your question it would appear the answer is "No, no stand exists as you describe it". No need to argue with people about pedagogy or anything else.
Positioning the end pin in a cup is also a challenge for me. I assume this depends significantly on how much the endpin is pulled out. My endpin is almost "all the way in", so that it is almost impossible for me to see it and therefore to position it properly. That would be very different for someone whose endpin is all the way out.
But the cure is easy: I use a stand which does not use a cup (Hercules), with the trade-off that I have to lift the bass a little bit more to store and unstore it.
This is one of those situations where the sort of person who wants to do this and the person who would do the work to do it "right" are probably at different ends of the spectrum! Still, I used to play an EUB on a stand and It was fine once I got the right angle. The difference being the lack of a bass body made it easier to bring yourself in.
Ultimately it seems like the old "creating a problem where there isn't one" which seems to be common with the double bass!
Ultimately it seems like the old "creating a problem where there isn't one" which seems to be common with the double bass!
Thank you Mr. Smith for your comments.
Yes, reducing the responsibility of supporting a bass body does allow greater freedom for playing. How could it not? I think, IMHO, that some people think that there is only "one way" to play an UB "properly". And that, to me, is clearly not true. Some of these people seem to regard their investment in their education so dearly that musical growth or accepting of new ideas is difficult for them.
BTY, I am not at different ends of "the spectrum" as you suggest. But I can see why you would think that. I am quite talented in design. And I believe what I am proposing isn't creating a problem, as some seem to think, but rather a solution to expand new possibilities. I have been somewhat amazed at what a tempest this has caused for some traditional folks. The UB has been around for hundreds of years. I really don't think it should be frozen in time.
I am very appreciative of your comments. Truly. I look forward to what other comments you may have. Thank you for your considered response.
Randy
Yes, reducing the responsibility of supporting a bass body does allow greater freedom for playing. How could it not? I think, IMHO, that some people think that there is only "one way" to play an UB "properly". And that, to me, is clearly not true. Some of these people seem to regard their investment in their education so dearly that musical growth or accepting of new ideas is difficult for them.
BTY, I am not at different ends of "the spectrum" as you suggest. But I can see why you would think that. I am quite talented in design. And I believe what I am proposing isn't creating a problem, as some seem to think, but rather a solution to expand new possibilities. I have been somewhat amazed at what a tempest this has caused for some traditional folks. The UB has been around for hundreds of years. I really don't think it should be frozen in time.
I am very appreciative of your comments. Truly. I look forward to what other comments you may have. Thank you for your considered response.
Randy
The DB is not "frozen in time", and nobody on this thread has written or implied that it should be.
The DB is arguably the traditional instrument that has received the largest number of innovations, both technically and musically, especially during the past 100 years or so.
Technically, we have witnessed innovations such as metal strings, a 5th string, the C-extension, the angled endpin, adjustable bridges, solo tuning, fifth tuning, numerous designs of travel and folding basses, body-less silent- or stick-basses, alternative materials such as carbon fiber or aluminum, etc.. These innovations have helped players solve a number of issues that were relevant to them, such as playability, storage, transportation, etc., and enabled them to play their basses in many different postures (standing, sitting high or low, jumping on their bass, ...) to fit their musical needs.
Musically, thanks to innovators like Rabbath, Petracchi, Milt Hinton, LaFaro, Red Mitchell, and numerous many others, the bass has remained or become a most important foundation for many very different genres of music: orchestral or solo classical music, jazz and all its ramifications, rockabilly, bluegrass, country, experimental free improvisation, etc.
Thanks to all these technical and musical innovations we can listen to Edgar Meyer playing the Bach cello suites as well as virtuoso bluegrass with Yo-Yo Ma, Garcia-Fons's wizzardry, pyrotechnical rockabilly slap bass, etc., all demonstrating how lively and not "frozen in time" the DB is.
You opened this thread by asking about a stand that would enable you to "grab the bass and play it without any drama", suggesting that you struggle to hold the bass, which is the most basic skill a beginner has to master to start learning the bass. So, several experienced teachers (not me) have pointed out to you that looking for a stand would presumably not be the best way to solve your problem. This does not justify that you brand them as "traditional folks". Just imagine a violin beginner struggling to hold his/her violin (as many beginners do) asking on a forum about a stand to solve this issue, or a violin/cello/bass beginner facing intonation challenges (as we all did and still do) asking about adding frets!
Now since you are a "talented designer" and since, as mentioned above, innovations for the double bass are generally welcome, I strongly encourage you to go ahead with your concept of a stand adapted for bass playing and come back on this forum to demonstrate the musical benefits of it. Hopefully, this will prompt some of us to embrace your concept, just like seeing (and listening to) Rabbath or Rufus Reid playing with an angled pin convinced many players to try and adopt it.
Ultimately, the evolution of the instruments is very similar to evolution in biology: when a mutation appears, depending of the fitness it provides, it either disappears rapidly, or develops as a new specy with its own viable niche, or completely replaces the previously existing instrument. So let's see what happens.
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I was going to say... many of the folks here on TB are extremely experimental when it comes to trying unorthodox things on the DB... there are SOME traditionalists, but by and large we are all gear addicts and are always looking to experiment with the newest "innovation". As far as I can tell, the apparent backlash against the OP in this thread is 100% caused by their attitude/rebutting anyone who has a difference of opinion. excited to see what the OP comes up with for his design though
I guess I qualify as one of the OP's "traditionalists", but many of us who have been playing this instrument for a while have seen many "improvements" over time, some of which have been adopted and many that have not. This stand concept to me is an example of a solution in search of a problem. I can imagine a use for a playing stand for certain specific situations, and if the OP could design a better one that's great, but it still wouldn't be something I would want to use unless there was no other option. To me, there are other things that need designing that would be more useful. For example, I have always wanted someone to make a functional collapsible bass that had some way you could fill the structural supports with air like a collapsible boat. I'm not being totally facetious. Is it possible? I'd love to see someone design and build that.
Design is indeed a fascinating but difficult activity. For example, I am yet to find a bass stand (for resting the bass, not for playing it) that meets all my requirements, i.e.
1. supports safely the bass,
2. uses a minimal horizontal and vertical space,
3. enables to store the bass with its end pin out, ready to play,
4. does not require to lift the bass more than 2 to 3 centimeters to install it on the stand
5. can be folded easily in a few seconds for transportation,
6. looks reasonably nice,
7. is inexpensive.
OP, if you have any thoughts and suggestions, I am genuinely interested.
1. supports safely the bass,
2. uses a minimal horizontal and vertical space,
3. enables to store the bass with its end pin out, ready to play,
4. does not require to lift the bass more than 2 to 3 centimeters to install it on the stand
5. can be folded easily in a few seconds for transportation,
6. looks reasonably nice,
7. is inexpensive.
OP, if you have any thoughts and suggestions, I am genuinely interested.
I don’t use the top rod. And I flip the bottom arms upside down and cover them with cheap pipe protectors.
Strap is optional - it sits at home like this in the stand without the strap. Balances just fine.
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I have an Ingles stand with the same sort of set-up. I have played the bass in the stand by necessity a few times but I wouldn't want to if I didn't have to. I find it really confining and uncomfortable.
I just received the K&M stand today and tried it as a playing stand. It works okay that way, and the tripod base, while a little tipsy, allows you to pull the bass toward you as you play. I think I will keep it. As previously mentioned, the peg cup of that stand is sort of strange and could have been done better IMHO. I think I am still going to hack my Ingles stand and see if I can improve on that design for playing. Thanks so much for the input of those of you are open to new ideas. The rest of you people probably already know what you can do.
Randy
Randy
I think this is incorrect. The bass and the body being fluid and each having a bit a of give reduces the overall movement needed. You may get it to work, it will not be an improvement or we would all do it.
You are accusing people of being traditionalist, but you would need a truly limited scope of what can be done with the instrument to want it stiff and stationary.
It might get you through a gig of rudimentary low end pizz but that is about it.
If this guy can't even make it look cool, I don't have high hopes for anyone else!
That is a pretty tall order Papa, especially the "inexpensive" part. Often, you get what you pay for, more or less. I am focused on a playing stand now for a variety of reasons. If making a stand as you suggest were all that easy it would be on the market. The K&M stand I just bought is adequate but nothing more. It is lightweight and fairly well constructed but not inexpensive. I really don't like the plastic fitments on it. It does fit several of your requirements such as size requirements and it collapses easily. You can buy a tote bag for it, unfortunately at an inflated price.
Randy
