Playing to a click...

[pbass2]

The thing is, there is a difference between a fully quantized drum track, and playing to a click where there is still room for nuance and groove.

HUGE difference. Players who insist a click will make the playing stiff or rigid are the ones who haven't learned how to play to a click. Perhaps we should start saying play "with" a click instead of "to", or even "play around the click"? Because that's what good players do.

 

[Heyturnup]

If you can't play to a click, you have no business attempting to push or pull on the beat. Learn to play on beat before you try to artistically mess with the beat.

 

[foolforthecity]

Currently between bands, and looking for new opportunities. Whilst, I've had a question hovering around my head...

I can play to a click / metronome, and if I have a hard time playing something to a click, I'll practice it until I have it down. I take pride in doing my homework, and keeping my playing together.

However, the players I have come across in the near past... Most of them have a problem with click. It's obvious they cannot play to click (very sloppy timing, chasing, inconsistent tempo), and the most used excuses range from:

"man, click makes everything stiff and boring"
"I'd like to have my own groove"
"meh, Pro Tools rock"

So, do you see being able to play to a click track mandatory? I'm I asking too much? How is this generally seen in your scene?

Note, I'm not saying a band has to play to a click always (in a studio it could be helpful, or, when using backing tracks live), but is it not a good skill to have? And if it is, how come so many players are against it (especially drummers, whose job, if I'm correct, is about time)? Too lazy / proud to practice? Ignorance?

You might want to check out Jeff Berlin for pointers on metronome usage... I hear he’s all up into the click

 

[projectapollo]

I have to play with a click every week at church. I find that I let the drummer follow the click and I follow the drummer. I specifically listen for the click only for tricky timing parts that come along occasionally. On some weeks, we get a drummer who has real difficulty with steady tempo even with a click. In those cases I find myself trying to momentarily lead the band back to the correct tempo/timing by focusing back on the click. Hopefully the wayward drummer gets back on the one, correctly.

 

[Kmonk]

I have have played to click in the studio a couple of times when the producer demanded it but I have never practiced to a click. My belief is that if you always play to click, then you rely on it and have trouble playing without it. It's similar to a drummer I played with who went to Berklee. He learned to write drum charts and wrote them for every song we played. The problem was that if we deviated from the song, such as the guitarist shortening or lengthening a solo, the lead singer forgetting a verse or chorus, he had no idea what to do. He relied on charts so much that he never learned what to do when things didn't go as planned. I've seen players who rely on clicks that have similar issues when it comes to timing. They're great when playing with a click but since they never really developed an internal sense of timing, they have trouble keeping time without a click. I guess on some level I do understand people using a click but I have been told by many musicians that I have an excellent sense of timing. Maybe that's why I've never relied on a click. Having a good sense of timing is extremely important to being a good musician. There's nothing more frustrating for a bass player than a drummer who constantly changes tempo during a song.

 

[Kro]

Perhaps we should start saying play "with" a click instead of "to", or even "play around the click"? Because that's what good players do.

Absolutely. Let's also not forget than when you're 100% grooving on time with a click, the click IME usually tends to disappear... not that it isn't audible, but it usually falls into an aural blind spot of sorts.

To @two fingers ' point earlier, I think that's frequently one of the things that spooks players who aren't used to using a click. They actually start to go looking for it... and only find it when they get off time.

 

[Scarysharkface]

Currently between bands, and looking for new opportunities. Whilst, I've had a question hovering around my head...

I can play to a click / metronome, and if I have a hard time playing something to a click, I'll practice it until I have it down. I take pride in doing my homework, and keeping my playing together.

However, the players I have come across in the near past... Most of them have a problem with click. It's obvious they cannot play to click (very sloppy timing, chasing, inconsistent tempo), and the most used excuses range from:

"man, click makes everything stiff and boring"
"I'd like to have my own groove"
"meh, Pro Tools rock"

So, do you see being able to play to a click track mandatory? I'm I asking too much? How is this generally seen in your scene?

Note, I'm not saying a band has to play to a click always (in a studio it could be helpful, or, when using backing tracks live), but is it not a good skill to have? And if it is, how come so many players are against it (especially drummers, whose job, if I'm correct, is about time)? Too lazy / proud to practice? Ignorance?

Practice to the click and perform/record without it (unless you've got a bunch of stuff sequenced, in which case obviously you should perform with the click). Some folks simply can't do it, some folks don't need it and some folks are fine with a click and awful without it. Practicing to the click will certainly help your time.

John

 

[skyline_01]

I do feel that any musician should be able to play with a click, especially a drummer. It's obviously useful for developing good tempo, and incredibly useful and sometimes just plain required in the studio when layering tracks. Try playing with sequenced tracks live without one and see how that goes.

Our drummer is from the "no click" school of thought and it drives me nuts. When we recorded our last album the engineer really pushed for a click to keep everything tight and easy to manage and our drummer gave a lot of pushback. We ended up keeping the click but he was not happy about it and I thought at one point there might be words between him and the engineer.

I think the main problem is that he varies the tempo often times when going for a fill or a transition within a song. As a result, when he got ahead of or behind the click and the engineer said "cut" I think he felt embarrassed/angry about it, like he was wasting everyone's time.

 

[Gravedigger Dav]

Click = metronome. Excellent in practice to help train yourself to hold a steady tempo (keeping the grove), not so useful in a live performance setting.
YMMV

 

[lfmn16]

If you can groove to a click track, you can groove with a drummer. A groove does not require crappy timing. If you can’t play to a metronome, your timing sucks, there’s no getting around it.

 

[lfmn16]

I do feel that any musician should be able to play with a click, especially a drummer. It's obviously useful for developing good tempo, and incredibly useful and sometimes just plain required in the studio when layering tracks. Try playing with sequenced tracks live without one and see how that goes.

Our drummer is from the "no click" school of thought and it drives me nuts. When we recorded our last album the engineer really pushed for a click to keep everything tight and easy to manage and our drummer gave a lot of pushback. We ended up keeping the click but he was not happy about it and I thought at one point there might be words between him and the engineer.

I think the main problem is that he varies the tempo often times when going for a fill or a transition within a song. As a result, when he got ahead of or behind the click and the engineer said "cut" I think he felt embarrassed/angry about it, like he was wasting everyone's time.

The best drummer I ever played with used a click track in the studio and he had rock solid timing. It was never even a question whether or not to use one.

 

[trofud]

Click, no click, backing track… Bring it, no problem. Adapt and have fun.

 

[skyline_01]

The best drummer I ever played with used a click track in the studio and he had rock solid timing. It was never even a question whether or not to use one.

Yep. Likewise, some of the best I've played with had zero aversion to a click and would freely use it if the situation warranted. I think if you started off playing with a click as a beginner then your sense of tempo is naturally better. It's not rocket surgery.

 

[Hasty]

Depends on the context

I used to have a church gig that always used a click track. These guys were all pros and it tied into lights, multimedia, etc... it was always a great experience. I loved seeing how integrating the click actually increased the level of creativity in what we did each week.
Now I pretty much only play Jazz and Big Band... so I am the click track now (along with everyone else technically cause we all keep time like we should).

 

[LBS-bass]

Playing to a metronome is a time-honored (pun intended) way to improve your tempo. It's an important EXERCISE but it is not necessarily the way you want to do things in a live setting. I think that we underestimate the usefulness of a time-keeping device sometimes.

My band was doing a song that has a breakdown where only the vocal and guitar are quietly playing. The singer insisted that this part was done with a r*etard (no jokes please) and that he would do it that way. I didn't think so. It was a mini fight between he and I because I believe that most live bands don't do that sort of thing well, even if it's recorded that way on the original, and it always comes off as unintentional and sloppy.

But I gave it to him because I didn't want to die on that hill. Later in personal practice I listened through that passage on the studio recording, and I'm 100% certain there was a click being used in there somewhere because the timing of everything in that passage, including the rests before the instrumentation comes back in, is absolutely and perfectly in time. He must have noticed this too after we argued over it, because, while he never told me I was right, he stopped trying to sing it that way at the next rehearsal. So your "live feel" music is often recorded with a click track, too. You just don't always know.

However...

I know players who work alone and can play well with a click track. But that has not, for some reason, translated to good listening skills when playing with other musicians or playing along with recorded music, even when that music is also in perfect time.

A metronome or click is a means to an end; it's meant to help you learn how to pick up and listen to the tempo that's being presented to you, but if your ears are not open to what's happening around you, you're not learning much from it. So, yes, it's a useful tool, but live feel and being able to relax into the groove that you're hearing is also important. In the end, we are humans, not metronomes. Except my drummer. He is, in fact, a human metronome.

 

[Dana R Gregory]

One of the best things that happened on my worship team was the introduction of click tracks. We had a young drummer at the time who I could never lock in with. When we started using clicks, everything changed for the better. I was now able to lock in with him and our sound improved greatly. The young drummer has moved on the greener pastures and we still use clicks. They are very handy even though I am able to lock in with the drummers we have now now.

 

[Pings Bass]

There's a zen to it, IMO. Tempo needs to breathe sometimes. But in order to be able to breathe, you have to be able to play steadily. So: regular practice with a metronome = better ability to play rubato. I've never played with a click track live, but for tracking sessions it's essential.

 

[RoketRdr]

Click = metronome. Excellent in practice to help train yourself to hold a steady tempo (keeping the grove), not so useful in a live performance setting.
YMMV

Tell that to most major touring artists.

 

[LaklandLaksNADA]

Ability to play with a click? Mandatory. Its lazy and undisciplined to have poor and inconsistent timing.

Required to use in a band setting? Optional.

Just my $0.02

 

[kevindahl]

Mandatory live, no. Mandatory in a studio, it should be.

This^^^
I played to a click live in a duo and didn't care for it after a while. Maybe it was that we didn't have any room for improvising and changing the songs up a bit.

Unless your band is recording live off the floor a click makes it so much easier to add overdubs. I am not referring to the quantize stiffness that Rick Beato is taking about.