Playing to a click...

[Smooth_bass88]

Currently between bands, and looking for new opportunities. Whilst, I've had a question hovering around my head...

I can play to a click / metronome, and if I have a hard time playing something to a click, I'll practice it until I have it down. I take pride in doing my homework, and keeping my playing together.

However, the players I have come across in the near past... Most of them have a problem with click. It's obvious they cannot play to click (very sloppy timing, chasing, inconsistent tempo), and the most used excuses range from:

"man, click makes everything stiff and boring"
"I'd like to have my own groove"
"meh, Pro Tools rock"

So, do you see being able to play to a click track mandatory? I'm I asking too much? How is this generally seen in your scene?

Note, I'm not saying a band has to play to a click always (in a studio it could be helpful, or, when using backing tracks live), but is it not a good skill to have? And if it is, how come so many players are against it (especially drummers, whose job, if I'm correct, is about time)? Too lazy / proud to practice? Ignorance?

The ability to play to click is a skill unto itself and if you plan on being a working musician, you’d better be really good at it.

 

[Corevalay]

A good (even a decent) musician can play to a click. Anything else is an excuse for poor time.

I'd have to agree here. I'm not saying you need to use a click in a live situation, because I'm not a big fan of that. However, if you're practicing or recording and can't stay on with the click, that's a problem.

 

[kalle74]

Many good opinions and points so far, keep them coming.

Click track as an instructional method to learn your craft, it really is indispensable. And it amazes me how a lot of musicians I have met, apparently have decided to skip using one for training purposes...

True, not every song benefits from having a click track, however, be it live or studio. Some tracks really benefit from the "free time" and elastic timing. This however, is a band thing and it has to be done together as a unit.

Now, many drummers confuse "groove" and "shady timing", and thus, are offended by or uneasy playing to a click track. And therefore, "click kills the feel". But, for the rest of us, drummer's "groove" is about trying to guess where his 1 will land, which doesn't make for tight interplay.

I did a tour last summer (mixing monitors) for an act that features a phenomenal professional drummer, the rest of the band pro's, too. About half of the songs were done with a click track, and it amazed me every night how much room there is for interpretation even with click. To acclaim that click makes you stiff and boring, simply is not true. The click is a guide that doesn't kill your groove, and, IMO, should be considered so.

 

[JW56789]

I was a piano student for most of my childhood, all of my grade-school years. As such I figure I've spent collectively, about 18 months out of my life under the mechanical tyranny of Seth Thomas' 'tick-tock, tick-tock'.

As such, I can spot stuff speeding up, dragging, etc., THAT fast. So I really believe it's an acquired skill, and often times with a group of musicians, not everybody is going to take to it like a duck to water, and that's where it gets problematic, especially as you usually have a hard-head or two who naturally say 'why do we need THAT?'

Well, from experience, I can list any number of reasons why you need that. Other bands, no, you probably don't, but there's far more of the former than the latter.

 

[Milw_Chad]

My son is a classical cellist. When he practices half the time there will be a metronome and a drone tone in the key of whatever piece or section he is doing. He has much better intonation and timing than I do.

I have played to clicks in the studio but don't and should practice with one. I like the method mentioned above where the drummer is on the click and I play with the drummer.

 

[arbiterusa]

So, do you see being able to play to a click track mandatory?

Hell yes. I wouldn't play with anyone who can't.

 

[Bunk McNulty]

The only time I play to a click is when I'm recording. For me, it is a matter of practicality: It is a hell of a lot easier to edit a track that's been done with everyone playing to a click. And yes, it is kinda spooky at first when you can't hear it because you're right on it!

 

[Charlzm]

Currently between bands, and looking for new opportunities. Whilst, I've had a question hovering around my head...

I can play to a click / metronome, and if I have a hard time playing something to a click, I'll practice it until I have it down. I take pride in doing my homework, and keeping my playing together.

However, the players I have come across in the near past... Most of them have a problem with click. It's obvious they cannot play to click (very sloppy timing, chasing, inconsistent tempo), and the most used excuses range from:

"man, click makes everything stiff and boring"
"I'd like to have my own groove"
"meh, Pro Tools rock"

So, do you see being able to play to a click track mandatory? I'm I asking too much? How is this generally seen in your scene?

Note, I'm not saying a band has to play to a click always (in a studio it could be helpful, or, when using backing tracks live), but is it not a good skill to have? And if it is, how come so many players are against it (especially drummers, whose job, if I'm correct, is about time)? Too lazy / proud to practice? Ignorance?

Ahhh, the old "click" debate rears its ugly head again.

Jeff Berlin will tell you to never use one. Other will say to always use one.

I'll say it's good to practice, especially to work up difficult passages or licks or techniques. And you should definitely record to one, in my experience.

 

[micguy]

Mandatory live, no.

I sometimes play live where we're synced with a video - providing the sound track to a movie, if you will. So, most of the time, it's not mandatory live, but in some cases, yes, it is mandatory live.

If you have good timing, although it's a bit odd at first, eventually, it's very second nature to play with a click. Turn the click up loud enough to hear it, and when you're right on, the attack of the note you're playing buries the click - if you're doing it right, you hear the click when you're not playing, but when you're playing, you only hear it on beats you don't play.

 

[marko138]

I sometimes play live where we're synced with a video - providing the sound track to a movie, if you will. So, most of the time, it's not mandatory live, but in some cases, yes, it is mandatory live.

If you have good timing, although it's a bit odd at first, eventually, it's very second nature to play with a click. Turn the click up loud enough to hear it, and when you're right on, the attack of the note you're playing buries the click - if you're doing it right, you hear the click when you're not playing, but when you're playing, you only hear it on beats you don't play.

I can certainly see the need for it live in those situations, playing with samples, etc.

 

[Brad Johnson]

A good (even a decent) musician can play to a click. Anything else is an excuse for poor time.

Agreed. A click is simply an agreement. You can play around it, just like you can play around drums. Neither one automatically forces rigidity.

 

[Brad Johnson]

One drummer I work with had who often plays with percussion tracks in his headphones wanted me to play along with those tracks despite the fact that I couldn't hear them over his loud drums. His suggestion... look at the light on the mixer the track was running through.

I pointed out that a blinking light was no substitute for hearing a track and if he was playing in time and I played with him...


Back in the day I hooked up a mute footswitch for my stereo. I would play along with records and randomly mute for a minute or so and check my timing when I came back in. My internal clock turned out to be very solid.

 

[Biggbass]

When I started playing violin in 4th grade the teacher taught us to play to a metronome. That continued thru the years as I evolved to upright bass and played in orchestra. In the latter years of school the metronome was used only as a reference when needed, to establish the tempo.
So, for me, it as never been a challenge to work with a timing device. And once I'm locked in I'm locked in.

In a band, playing to a click track is a great tool for studio recording since it allows the producer to
add other elements as needed and insure that everyone in the overdubbing process is locked to the same tempo. Drummers will drift and play ahead or behind the beat, of course, and bass players usually stick pretty close to the drummers timing.

And in a live gig setting, a click reference for the drummer can be a great tool to keep the band from rushing or dragging since playing multiple songs in multiple sets involves multiple tempos.
And it can help overcome nervousness affecting tempo if the drummer uses it to reference tempo before counting off the intro.

So a click can be a great resource, or it can be a blinder that holds some back from natural expression. It'd be a tough challenge to identify which great recordings used a click and which ones didn't.

 

[Gravedigger Dav]

Tell that to most major touring artists.

Reread the last line of my post.

 

[Salicete]

I like a click.

I turned my son's band on to it, and now they all have a click in-ear when they play live, and it really tightened them up.

With sometimes wonky sound in some clubs/venues, and the fact that sometimes you just cant hear your own monitors, its a real plus.

Some guys hate the click and even feel insulted if you suggest it, but I don't mind; its just another tool that can help make you sound better.

 

[RoketRdr]

Reread the last line of my post.

That’s actually what I was referring to. Most touring artists use a click track.

 

[LBS-bass]

Many good opinions and points so far, keep them coming.

Click track as an instructional method to learn your craft, it really is indispensable. And it amazes me how a lot of musicians I have met, apparently have decided to skip using one for training purposes...

True, not every song benefits from having a click track, however, be it live or studio. Some tracks really benefit from the "free time" and elastic timing. This however, is a band thing and it has to be done together as a unit.

Now, many drummers confuse "groove" and "shady timing", and thus, are offended by or uneasy playing to a click track. And therefore, "click kills the feel". But, for the rest of us, drummer's "groove" is about trying to guess where his 1 will land, which doesn't make for tight interplay.

I did a tour last summer (mixing monitors) for an act that features a phenomenal professional drummer, the rest of the band pro's, too. About half of the songs were done with a click track, and it amazed me every night how much room there is for interpretation even with click. To acclaim that click makes you stiff and boring, simply is not true. The click is a guide that doesn't kill your groove, and, IMO, should be considered so.

If I could +1 this 100x I would do it.

The click is not equal to quantization. It gives you your basic tempo cues but, being human, we will still be milliseconds away from perfect time. It is those milliseconds that give music the human, live feel. We can be quite human and still be grooving in tight tempo with our bandmates without rushing or dragging the beat.

 

[Gravedigger Dav]

That’s actually what I was referring to. Most touring artists use a click track.

okay, that's fine. I don't play in that league and I doubt most local dive bar bands have the technology and equipment to do that. And on a large stage where communications are difficult, I can see the advantage.

 

[RoketRdr]

okay, that's fine. I don't play in that league and I doubt most local dive bar bands have the technology and equipment to do that. And on a large stage where communications are difficult, I can see the advantage.

Yeah I suppose we should actually define that because large stage arena vs small indoor club makes a difference.

 

[RoketRdr]

okay, that's fine. I don't play in that league and I doubt most local dive bar bands have the technology and equipment to do that. And on a large stage where communications are difficult, I can see the advantage.

Sooooo...I apologize for being snarky. But my mindset was on large venue, big stage, professional artist situations. Lets talk about how a click track does and doesn't work for the small venue, local club/bar, amateur band scenario. When running stage monitors (whether it be monitor or onstage amp/cab), IEM's, wireless and you run all over the stage the click track is a godsend. When playing in your local club with a tight stage, your backline usually carries the venue, you don't have IEM's, and you may or may not be wireless, its probably not beneficial to have a click track. You just need to be in "the groove" with your bandmates. In that scenario its a whole lot easier to do. When you're on a large stage with tons of power, using IEM's and wireless, it will be EXTREMELY beneficial to use a click track. Can you do it without? Of course you can just a whole lot more difficult. Do some touring artists do it that way? Yes they do. Do a lot of them use a click track? Yes they do. There's a time and place to use it and a time and place not to. Depends on the scenario and how well you flow with your bandmates.