Playing to a click...

[kalle74]

Currently between bands, and looking for new opportunities. Whilst, I've had a question hovering around my head...

I can play to a click / metronome, and if I have a hard time playing something to a click, I'll practice it until I have it down. I take pride in doing my homework, and keeping my playing together.

However, the players I have come across in the near past... Most of them have a problem with click. It's obvious they cannot play to click (very sloppy timing, chasing, inconsistent tempo), and the most used excuses range from:

"man, click makes everything stiff and boring"
"I'd like to have my own groove"
"meh, Pro Tools rock"

So, do you see being able to play to a click track mandatory? I'm I asking too much? How is this generally seen in your scene?

Note, I'm not saying a band has to play to a click always (in a studio it could be helpful, or, when using backing tracks live), but is it not a good skill to have? And if it is, how come so many players are against it (especially drummers, whose job, if I'm correct, is about time)? Too lazy / proud to practice? Ignorance?

 

[Joe Nerve]

So, do you see being able to play to a click track mandatory?

Yes. For me.

I give others their space though. I can understand why someone would rather not play to a click, and that's not something I'd ever hold anyone to. There are much more important things in a band situation IMO, and much more to good musicianship. Only time it becomes critical (IME) is during recordings, IF its agreed that we're recording to a click. And I guess if a drummer's timing is REALLY off, in which case I most likely wouldn't be playing with them anyhow .

 

[newwavefrank]

Ive gone through periods where we used a click, and others when we don't . We have been click free for the past year, and I really want to go back. My drummer is steady, but that steady tempo may be faster or slower than I would like. Having said that I feel it keeps you honest. Some nights what I feel is right might be too fast. You get your adrenaline going and want to speed things up. I know that's true because when I was using a click I sometimes felt they were going too slow.... Obviously it was me not the click. The click can keep everyone together and you know you are playing at the predetermined tempo.

 

[David Pinton]

In order to be able to keep good time without a click it is mandatory to practice with a click.
I noticed this when I first played drums with a band.

 

[mrcbass]

So, do you see being able to play to a click track mandatory? I'm I asking too much? How is this generally seen in your scene?

Mandatory? No. Useful, yes.

As with anything, the more skills you have under your belt, the more ready you will be to take on any given opportunity. Seems odd to me that someone "good enough" to be in a band doesn't have that skill - how is using a track different than playing against a recording, which is how I practice.

 

[Gothic]

Apart from drummers, whose brains inner workings I can't really comprehend, I find that, most players, will react differently (playing wise) when playing to a click rather than a laid down drum part. I'm of the opinion that, while a drummer may be slightly off here and there, tempo wise, playing to a click "lessens the groove", so to speak. There's no "real" interaction as a player in a band when playing to a click. In fact, I find the perfectly timed produced tracks nowadays very lacking in the "groove" department and I think that's the reason. Everything's just broken down into tiny little fragments, quantized and then placed together perfectly. I find that mechanical process puts me off.

Even when recording, I really prefer to have scratch tracks (or the final tracks) of all the other instruments to record over. Gives me more of a "band" feeling, so to speak.

Rick Beato made a video kinda about this, it sums up my opinion perfectly.


Now to really answer your question. Sure, it's another useful tool to be able to play to a click but for me, it wouldn't really factor in much when choosing musical partners.

 

[lowphatbass]

In live situations I’d rather not use a click. If it needs to happen to sync with prerecorded tracks then so be it. Either way there needs to be a system and people need to be able to execute. Needing to use a click to keep decent time in a band situation isn’t really something I’ve ran into recently...it’s usually “sink or swim”. Back in the day I used to play with drummers that had those little gizmos attached to the HH stand that gave a constant digital reading of the BPM. They were more concerned with self-improvement than anything else and usually we’re solid.

In the studio I’m generally laying rhythm tracks with a drummer. Using a click and having everything “on the grid” is the way to go. Some recording situations don’t have a click involved, for a variety of reasons and I’m fine with that also.

 

[dreamadream99]

Syncing to click is an acquired skill. I have played with many churches that sequence instrumental parts, done film score work that had to be synced to a time code, and every studio track from jingles to albums had a click. The more you do it, the better you get at it.

Is the skill required? Not in a live band. It is for studio musicians, though. If you can’t hang with a click, you won’t be asked back. If you aspire to be a session bassist, you’ll have to be passably competent at playing along with a click.

You may already be ready to play with a click. Just ask yourself these simple questions:

• Can you reliably tap your foot without increasing or decreasing tempo?
• Can you keep track of where the beat is on a 2 measure solo break when the drums stop playing time?
• Have you ever resorted to clapping or conducting to help your band mates stay on tempo?

If the answer to any of these is yes, you’re probably ready to use a click, and not be thrown by it. If the answer to all of these is no, you aren’t ready.

 

[buldog5151bass]

A good (even a decent) musician can play to a click. Anything else is an excuse for poor time.

 

[Samatza]

Some music works when you sync to a click but some starts to sound a little off with rigid timing.
It's important to be able to lock with anything including a click but to also realise that the ebb and flow of most music requires a little flexibility not rigidity.

This is why with some tunes if you're using a drum machine it starts to feel a bit weird. Now I'm not talking tempo but rather the timing of notes, you've got to feel the groove.

 

[garp]

[H]ow come so many players are against it (especially drummers, whose job, if I'm correct, is about time)? Too lazy / proud to practice? Ignorance?

Speaking as a drummer, I can report that some drummers absolutely resent the implication that their timekeeping function might necessitate the use of a technological crutch. Other drummers embrace the fact that a click can often improve the performance of the entire band.

Speaking as a bass player, I agree with other posters above that while it's not a mandatory skill, being able to play to a click only makes you a more versatile musician, and that practicing to a click can enhance one's sense of groove. Oddly enough, I've also noticed that many upright players – most in jazz – have a better overall sense of tempo than electric bass players.

 

[KaseOfBass]

I've been playing with a click live for years now and I absolutely prefer to do so. Those that say the music is too rigid, doesn't breathe, doesn't flow, etc. don't actually know how to play with a click. The click isn't responsible for any of that feel....YOU are. It's not the click's fault that you as a player make the music sound rigid or can't make things flow.

 

[Kro]

There's a difference between being able to play with a click, but choosing not to for artistic reasons, and straight up not being able to.

Sometimes the former is used as an excuse for the latter.

Nevertheless, being able to play to a click - or playing to drums playing to a click, is a very important skill if one wants to be flexible enough to track in different circumstances.

 

[Kro]

Rick Beato made a video kinda about this, it sums up my opinion perfectly.

Is that the video where Beato uses one of those tap BMP tools to approximate (not closely enough) a BPM for a classic drum track, and then uses that tempo to show the drift over the entirety of a track - as an example of how older tracks would vary? That was a very frustrating video for me to watch and kind of soured me on him a bit if I'm being honest.

The thing is, there is a difference between a fully quantized drum track, and playing to a click where there is still room for nuance and groove.

 

[two fingers]

I used to be pro click track. But that's when I worked with pro players. These days the only time I use a click is at church. I will only say this. A click makes "iffy" players MORE likely to have a trainwreck, not less.

Yes, that's weird. I get it. But it's true. If you have bad timing issues in a band, a click will make them WORSE, not better. If someone gets off from the click, especially a drummer, you now have two beats going at the same time (which is particularly annoying when you run in ear monitors).

Yep, pro players can work with a click. Marginal players, not so much.

 

[SteveCS]

... I will only say this. A click makes "iffy" players MORE likely to have a trainwreck, not less.

Yes, that's weird. I get it. But it's true. If you have bad timing issues in a band, a click will make them WORSE, not better.
...

 

[marko138]

Mandatory live, no. Mandatory in a studio, it should be.

 

[Bo-Weevil]

Our drummer could play a 17-tune set in about 12-mins if I let him. He is the worst when it comes to playing everything faster then it should be and being aggressive.
However, he's a monster vocalist and harmonizer, and all around great guy. Not worth destroying a 30-year friendship when some constant hammering will do.
So, we started using a click about 6-8 months ago and it has improved our performance as a group 100-fold.
We are still getting used to "playing with each other" now, but all in all, it's been a good thing.
Would I rather not? Sure!
But I would rather be solid.

 

[SLO Surfer]

So, do you see being able to play to a click track mandatory?

Different bands or musical projects have different necessities, so there’s many different answers to your question.

I asking too much?

Depends on your musical project or band.

How is this generally seen in your scene?

I’m in one band that plays to click with backing tracks, and one band that only plays to click for some/most songs in the studio but never live.

is it not a good skill to have?

Absolutely.

The only players I know who say playing to a click is lame/bad/soul sucking are those who can’t do it well. Coincidence? Nah.

 

[Eddie LeBlanc]

Sorry I had too... hope no one takes offense. But this is what Ringo thinks.