PLEASE HELP ME WITH ADVICE! Don't Know if I Am Wrong Here

[mcnach]

If you plan on playing live, You will need something bigger even if you run it straight through the PA.

Probably not cool to demand the guitarist adjust his EQ to suit you...

We don't know what the guitarist was doing.
We don't know that the OP was *demanding* (that's a heavy word) anything.

I have asked guitarists in particular to change the onstage EQ, in particular their low end, quite a a few times, because it was messing up the whole sound onstage. I've asked people to turn down. Why not? I've also been asked to change things. When we're thinking of a band mix, it doesn't work very well if people get all precious "but it's my sound".
In fact, 8-9 out of 10 times anyone says "it's my sound", you're dealing with an uncompromising diva... so whenever I hear it, I see it as a red flag and keep my eyes open so that I don't get caught in drama, as it is often in the air after hearing those words.

 

[non]

I recently joined an alternative Rock/Metal group with a deftones/rage/nirvana stoner rock clutch type sound.

that sounds right up my ally. not sure where your at city wise but should you decide to quit tell the band leader you know of another bass player willing to step in. just send me a message.

 

[buldog5151bass]

I disagree about the younger/older thing but agree with the general gist. Being older doesn't give anybody any extra rights. We should be able to discuss band sound with anyone... politely, yes, not giving orders, but the dialogue must be open and frank.

I was not there, so I can't say if maybe the OP was not tactful enough, maybe he could have phrased things more diplomatically, I don't know... it's after all a skill that one learns with age (and bad experiences ) but I've also met enough band members, often guitarists, who are too selfcentered and far up their own arses who can't even accept having a discussion about how they do what they do.

The fact the guitarist is suggesting that you need a big amp onstage and that the PA is just to fill in the sound, added to his getting upset, makes me think he may not know as much as he think he does. However, he may be speaking from having seen first hand that the Bugera 12" may not be enough, and he may be right.
Personally, while I prefer something more substantial, I have played plenty of gigs with a single 12" combo/speaker onstage, because it is largely just my own bass monitor and nothing else. Any decent venue that gets my bass through their PA means they are in control of my bass amplification for the venue: the amplifier onstage is just a monitor, and the sound engineers will invariably be happiest when bands don't get loud onstage, as they can control the sound in the venue better. Having said that, not every 12" combo is the same. I had a 100W Hartke combo with a single 15" speaker and it struggled at times. The 300W MarkBass CMD121P didn't have as much depth, but it was very effective as a monitor onstage despite its tiny size.

I didn't say it gives anyone extra rights, but it is a reason to be practical.

 

[DJ Bebop]

I would forget being concerned about his sound as right now your amp is too small.
You are looking for him and his amp and tone to compensate for your lack of power to be above the fray.
I would work on finding a big amp then you can drown him out

Although a Mesa Boogie combo will be a fight to drown out.

No, really that is the problem. You don't have enough "rig for the gig" or even for the rehearsal

 

[DJ Bebop]

I would forget being concerned about his sound as right now your amp is too small.
You are looking for him and his amp and tone to compensate for your lack of power to be above the fray.
I would work on finding a big amp then you can drown him out

Although a Mesa Boogie combo will be a fight to drown out.

No, really that is the problem. You don't have enough "rig for the gig" or even for the rehearsal

Oh and set that thing up on a chair or something so you can hear you better

 

[Phoenixedia_127]

This is not the bass player of the group. That would be me. This is the guitar player and he is not telling even remotely close to what happened. First of all, I have been playing and gigging for over six years and that includes playing in bars and legitimate stages. I have experience with PAs and amps, and most of it is things that I have learned from professionals. On top of that, I also play guitar, tuba, ukulele, and drums so I know a good amount of information about guitar amp and pedal settings. I'm not saying I know everything there is about sound equipment and gigging, but I am not ignorant either. Another bit of information that you need to know is that this guy plays guitar at a beginner level. As in he can only play power chords and basic solos. Don't get me wrong, there's always something to learn from someone even if they're just starting out, but it doesn't mean they're always right; doesn't mean I'm always right either. I showed up to this group and the first two or so practices went fine. I just sat in my corner and wrote bass lines for his originals (which are only four power chords) and I showed up to the first practice with all of the covers on their setlist learned. On the third practice, the guitar player told me straight to my face the my amp wasn't big enough to gig with and that I needed to buy a new one or use his. I have gigged with that amp for years and have never had an issue with not being loud enough and no, my school does not have a PA that I plug in when I do performances there. My Bugera competes with three roland piano amps and a stacked Marshall amp and does just fine. It's a 1,000 watt amp with an average output of 300 watts and it works perfectly fine. The reason why you couldn't hear my amp during rehersal was because this guitarist has his gain turned almost to max on his amp. It makes his tone very muddy, drowns out me, the drums, and the vocals, it leaves me deaf after every practice, and it makes his amp frequently feedback. However, I did not say anything back to him about it. Instead, I went and asked every single gigging guitarist and bassist in my area that I knew for advice, I told them my amp model and size and their response every time was the he was playing way too loud and needed to turn down. I didn't say anything to I'm about it for the next few practices, but he continuously mentioned my amp size and even suggested that I use my Fender Rumble 40 practice amp instead. I still did not say anything to him because I didn't think it was worth the argument. Then we did a practice at my house where I have my bass amp, two guitar amps, a drums set, 2 mics, and a fully setup sound board and PA. Once again he overwhelmed everyone with his gain being turned up to max. His response was that my PA was a piece of crap and that I needed to my 15 inch peavey speaker monitors down there which is entirely too loud for such a small space. This was when I finally said something. I state that turning your gain up that high can greatly affect your volume and turned my gain up on my bass amp to show him the difference. He refused to listen to me so I just moved on. Since then, he has refused to let us get a second guitarist even though he cannot play the rhythm or lead parts for the covers we are doing right and it has been expressed by our singer and drummer that they also want another guitarist. He has also refused to let our singer sing half of the songs, tried to prevent me and the singer from each adding one song to the setlist, and when politely approached by me and the other members about turning down so that we can be balance responds with "this is rock n' roll and I like my rock n' roll loud". I seriously believe that we won't be asked to come back after any future gigs because he constantly puts his amp at an earsplitting volume that drowns out everyone else in the group. Saturday night, we went to start a song and he played the intro so loud that my ears were ringing afterwards. I looked to my fellow band mates and they had similar reactions to mine so I simply stated, "hey Grady, I think you mid is a little high, could you please turn it down some?" to which he responded with screaming at me that I know nothing about amps, that I should just go play jazz instead, and that his tone is his tone and that he's not changing it for 20 minutes. I almost walked out of practice right there, but decided to sit through it and Sunday night I sent him a mature message saying that I would like every band member to feel respect and to be able to feel respected or I was going to part ways. The drummer and singer even encouraged me to send this to him as they felt the same way. His response was making a post on this forum impersonating me and to then send it to me and claim that I need to apologize to him for insulting him. I did not walk into this band "barking orders" at people and this guitar player is an untalented bully. As of today I left this group, but I think I need to put this on here to that people know that he's lying, and to be honest, it's pretty disgusting of you to go on here as a 30-year-old and pretend to be an 18-year-old girl Grady. Grow up.

 

[Mike Whitfield]

So two brand new TB members join in one day, just for this thread
1.) OP claims to be the 18 yo bassist
2.) Other claims the OP is really the guitarist posing as the 18 yo bassist

In either cases the OP needs to grow up and learn to communicate and cooperate like a competent adult.

[edit]
also, if case #2 is true, a 32 year old man taking his petty band grievances to social media (under a false identity) in order to count coup on an 18 year old girl is creepily too familiar. I believe gas lighting is against TB policy.
Rule #8: Represent yourself truthfully.

This, and well said regardless of what's really happening here.

 

[Phoenixedia_127]

This is not the bass player of the group. That would be me. This is the guitar player and he is not telling even remotely close to what happened. First of all, I have been playing and gigging for over six years and that includes playing in bars and legitimate stages. I have experience with PAs and amps, and most of it is things that I have learned from professionals. On top of that, I also play guitar, tuba, ukulele, and drums so I know a good amount of information about guitar amp and pedal settings. I'm not saying I know everything there is about sound equipment and gigging, but I am not ignorant either. Another bit of information that you need to know is that this guy plays guitar at a beginner level. As in he can only play power chords and basic solos. Don't get me wrong, there's always something to learn from someone even if they're just starting out, but it doesn't mean they're always right; doesn't mean I'm always right either. I showed up to this group and the first two or so practices went fine. I just sat in my corner and wrote bass lines for his originals (which are only four power chords) and I showed up to the first practice with all of the covers on their setlist learned. On the third practice, the guitar player told me straight to my face the my amp wasn't big enough to gig with and that I needed to buy a new one or use his. I have gigged with that amp for years and have never had an issue with not being loud enough and no, my school does not have a PA that I plug in when I do performances there. My Bugera competes with three roland piano amps and a stacked Marshall amp and does just fine. It's a 1,000 watt amp with an average output of 300 watts and it works perfectly fine. The reason why you couldn't hear my amp during rehersal was because this guitarist has his gain turned almost to max on his amp. It makes his tone very muddy, drowns out me, the drums, and the vocals, it leaves me deaf after every practice, and it makes his amp frequently feedback. However, I did not say anything back to him about it. Instead, I went and asked every single gigging guitarist and bassist in my area that I knew for advice, I told them my amp model and size and their response every time was the he was playing way too loud and needed to turn down. I didn't say anything to I'm about it for the next few practices, but he continuously mentioned my amp size and even suggested that I use my Fender Rumble 40 practice amp instead. I still did not say anything to him because I didn't think it was worth the argument. Then we did a practice at my house where I have my bass amp, two guitar amps, a drums set, 2 mics, and a fully setup sound board and PA. Once again he overwhelmed everyone with his gain being turned up to max. His response was that my PA was a piece of crap and that I needed to my 15 inch peavey speaker monitors down there which is entirely too loud for such a small space. This was when I finally said something. I state that turning your gain up that high can greatly affect your volume and turned my gain up on my bass amp to show him the difference. He refused to listen to me so I just moved on. Since then, he has refused to let us get a second guitarist even though he cannot play the rhythm or lead parts for the covers we are doing right and it has been expressed by our singer and drummer that they also want another guitarist. He has also refused to let our singer sing half of the songs, tried to prevent me and the singer from each adding one song to the setlist, and when politely approached by me and the other members about turning down so that we can be balance responds with "this is rock n' roll and I like my rock n' roll loud". I seriously believe that we won't be asked to come back after any future gigs because he constantly puts his amp at an earsplitting volume that drowns out everyone else in the group. Saturday night, we went to start a song and he played the intro so loud that my ears were ringing afterwards. I looked to my fellow band mates and they had similar reactions to mine so I simply stated, "hey Grady, I think you mid is a little high, could you please turn it down some?" to which he responded with screaming at me that I know nothing about amps, that I should just go play jazz instead, and that his tone is his tone and that he's not changing it for 20 minutes. I almost walked out of practice right there, but decided to sit through it and Sunday night I sent him a mature message saying that I would like every band member to feel respect and to be able to feel respected or I was going to part ways. The drummer and singer even encouraged me to send this to him as they felt the same way. His response was making a post on this forum impersonating me and to then send it to me and claim that I need to apologize to him for insulting him. I did not walk into this band "barking orders" at people and this guitar player is an untalented bully. As of today I left this group, but I think I need to put this on here to that people know that he's lying, and to be honest, it's pretty disgusting of you to go on here as a 30-year-old and pretend to be an 18-year-old girl Grady. Grow up.

Also, my name is Megan Gabel and this guy is Grady Ganta if you want to look us up for proof that I'm telling the truth.

 

[Phoenixedia_127]

I would forget being concerned about his sound as right now your amp is too small.
You are looking for him and his amp and tone to compensate for your lack of power to be above the fray.
I would work on finding a big amp then you can drown him out

Although a Mesa Boogie combo will be a fight to drown out.

No, really that is the problem. You don't have enough "rig for the gig" or even for the rehearsal

My amp is has an average output of 300 watts. This guy is even drowning out the drummer because he has his gain turned up to max and his guitar is squealing all of the time.

 

[ChrisBowsman]

Wow

 

[Phoenixedia_127]

that sounds right up my ally. not sure where your at city wise but should you decide to quit tell the band leader you know of another bass player willing to step in. just send me a message.

I wouldn't recommend it. The guitarist has some serious issues and he's not a good player to begin with. I'd be happy to give you the drummer and singers contact info though. They're chill

 

[Phoenixedia_127]

This, and well said regardless of what's really happening here.

#2 is true. I'm the actually bassist for this group and the original poster put this up because I called him out for literally screaming at me for 20 mins Sat night at practice.

 

[Phoenixedia_127]

Not sure why some peeps think the OP is right about tone settings... especially when telling a guitarist to turn "down" their mids. In a live setting, turning down mids means less cut through to be heard on stage especially with loud drummers. Takes alot of gigging experience to understand tone in different environments.

And yes, if you are playing any type of metal, a 112 amp will prob not cut it on stage for everyone to hear you stagewise. Yes, you might be loud on PA to audience, but if that drummer can't hear you, there might be problems. Drums and bass gotta mesh together and hear each other.

I never criticized him about his tone. He has his gain turned up to max on his amp and is even downing out the drummer. He screams at us if any of the other members ask him to turn down. I was never pushy with him I said "Hey, I think your mid is a little high, could you please turn it down some? It's hurting my ears"

 

[BurtMacklinFBI]

This is not the bass player of the group. That would be me. This is the guitar player and he is not telling even remotely close to what happened. First of all, I have been playing and gigging for over six years and that includes playing in bars and legitimate stages. I have experience with PAs and amps, and most of it is things that I have learned from professionals. On top of that, I also play guitar, tuba, ukulele, and drums so I know a good amount of information about guitar amp and pedal settings. I'm not saying I know everything there is about sound equipment and gigging, but I am not ignorant either. Another bit of information that you need to know is that this guy plays guitar at a beginner level. As in he can only play power chords and basic solos. Don't get me wrong, there's always something to learn from someone even if they're just starting out, but it doesn't mean they're always right; doesn't mean I'm always right either. I showed up to this group and the first two or so practices went fine. I just sat in my corner and wrote bass lines for his originals (which are only four power chords) and I showed up to the first practice with all of the covers on their setlist learned. On the third practice, the guitar player told me straight to my face the my amp wasn't big enough to gig with and that I needed to buy a new one or use his. I have gigged with that amp for years and have never had an issue with not being loud enough and no, my school does not have a PA that I plug in when I do performances there. My Bugera competes with three roland piano amps and a stacked Marshall amp and does just fine. It's a 1,000 watt amp with an average output of 300 watts and it works perfectly fine. The reason why you couldn't hear my amp during rehersal was because this guitarist has his gain turned almost to max on his amp. It makes his tone very muddy, drowns out me, the drums, and the vocals, it leaves me deaf after every practice, and it makes his amp frequently feedback. However, I did not say anything back to him about it. Instead, I went and asked every single gigging guitarist and bassist in my area that I knew for advice, I told them my amp model and size and their response every time was the he was playing way too loud and needed to turn down. I didn't say anything to I'm about it for the next few practices, but he continuously mentioned my amp size and even suggested that I use my Fender Rumble 40 practice amp instead. I still did not say anything to him because I didn't think it was worth the argument. Then we did a practice at my house where I have my bass amp, two guitar amps, a drums set, 2 mics, and a fully setup sound board and PA. Once again he overwhelmed everyone with his gain being turned up to max. His response was that my PA was a piece of crap and that I needed to my 15 inch peavey speaker monitors down there which is entirely too loud for such a small space. This was when I finally said something. I state that turning your gain up that high can greatly affect your volume and turned my gain up on my bass amp to show him the difference. He refused to listen to me so I just moved on. Since then, he has refused to let us get a second guitarist even though he cannot play the rhythm or lead parts for the covers we are doing right and it has been expressed by our singer and drummer that they also want another guitarist. He has also refused to let our singer sing half of the songs, tried to prevent me and the singer from each adding one song to the setlist, and when politely approached by me and the other members about turning down so that we can be balance responds with "this is rock n' roll and I like my rock n' roll loud". I seriously believe that we won't be asked to come back after any future gigs because he constantly puts his amp at an earsplitting volume that drowns out everyone else in the group. Saturday night, we went to start a song and he played the intro so loud that my ears were ringing afterwards. I looked to my fellow band mates and they had similar reactions to mine so I simply stated, "hey Grady, I think you mid is a little high, could you please turn it down some?" to which he responded with screaming at me that I know nothing about amps, that I should just go play jazz instead, and that his tone is his tone and that he's not changing it for 20 minutes. I almost walked out of practice right there, but decided to sit through it and Sunday night I sent him a mature message saying that I would like every band member to feel respect and to be able to feel respected or I was going to part ways. The drummer and singer even encouraged me to send this to him as they felt the same way. His response was making a post on this forum impersonating me and to then send it to me and claim that I need to apologize to him for insulting him. I did not walk into this band "barking orders" at people and this guitar player is an untalented bully. As of today I left this group, but I think I need to put this on here to that people know that he's lying, and to be honest, it's pretty disgusting of you to go on here as a 30-year-old and pretend to be an 18-year-old girl Grady. Grow up.

Wow, holy s—t... well, if what you say is true then good on you for standing up to this douchebag. Life is too short to deal with crappy amateur hour guitarists.

 

[Phoenixedia_127]

Wow, holy s—t... well, if what you say is true then good on you for standing up to this douchebag. Life is too short to deal with crappy amateur hour guitarists.

Thanks, it's been a hectic day with having to deal with this. He was trying to spam me and call me while I was at school.

 

[creaturegods]

 

[Phoenixedia_127]

First of all, especially since you are younger, you shouldn't be telling him. How would you feel if a freshman flute player in the school band came up to you and told you what to do with your EQ? You may be right, but that's not how to approach it. If you are talking tone, try "have you tried x?".

As to amps, it depends, but not many small places have PAs that will cover everything. It's likely one 12" won't cut it. Unless you have a super cab, like a Bareface, I would want to have 4 10s, 2 12s or 2 15s, and probably 300 watts.

Relax, keep playing. The fact that they are willing to play with a high schooler means they respect your ability.

This guy is impersonating me, I'm the actual bassist and this is the older guitarist. I never made any rude comments. What's actually happening is that he has his gain turned to max on his amp. It even drowns out the drummer and his guitar is squealing alot because of it and if any of the members in the group says something to him about it he screams at them.

 

[honeyiscool]

Is this the greatest thread in the world or the worst thread in the world, I don't know, I love it.

 

[Shalto]

Is this the greatest thread in the world or the worst thread in the world, I don't know, I love it.

It's like an m night shamyln twist that changes everything.

 

[Riff Ranger]

@Twofingeraction ... I will add that, having been the promising-but-green-18-year-old in a band with been-around-the-block-30-somethings myself, I regret assuming that my bandmates' extensive experience and skill in some areas translated to wisdom in everything. In my case, my bandmates wrote good material, performed well, and sounded great*; I decided to let them handle everything business related since I figured I didn't know anything about that ... aaaaand we played to empty rooms for no money about half the time. So: while it's worthwhile to learn tact (when addressing anybody, not just "your elders"), don't assume "your elders" know it all just because they're older; many of them have never learned tact themselves ...

Still not sure precisely what's going on here, but I stand behind my earlier statement even more than I did when I made it, haha!