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Please Recommend Me Drum Production Software
- Thread starter Riff Ranger
- Start date
I appreciate your encouraging avatar right now, by the way
Do you play with a click track? The drums are dragging. Happens with "machines."
We used to have to fix the drag by tethering the sync code on a track and then running that into a delay and into the sequencer to get the sequencer not to drag. This was back in the '80's playing rock. If you're not aware of machines dragging you need to become aware of it first.
Do you have a click track on your Reaper? Set that to speed and then set your machine to speed and see if at some point the machine will go out of sync with the click.
You either have to punch in those syncopated drum parts and get them where you want and then nudge your bass parts or punch in new bass parts after you've fixed the drums. Sometimes devices don't trigger immediately and there is a slight MS delay. Trying to do everything at once is a gamble where you spend time fixing parts. You're creating music. It will be hit and miss. No pain no gain.
yeah because it can use the same midi pack as ez drummers. or use a midi pad like this PreSonus ATOM 16-pad Performance Controller.
most drummers are using the Roland td-27/30/50 kits to record midi in the DAW triggering superior drummer 3
I really struggle with a click, and that’s one reason I got the BeatBuddy: I figured it would be as steady as a click without driving me crazy ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ the one time I recorded in a studio (back in 2001) we didn’t use a click because we wanted it to feel “live” and the drummer had a great sense of time (according to the seasoned guitarist and vocalist—I was 20 and didn’t really have a clue about time, and I don’t think much has changed, other than that I now at least have some idea of the importance of keeping time).
I would love to blame the machine, but are you sure I’m not rushing on that clip? I know everything played right on the beat can sound mechanical and sometimes I rush or drag intentionally, but I think I really only know enough to get myself into trouble. I was trying to play on the beat in this case.
EDITED to add: I also did the bass in one take.
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I realize not everyone can play to a click but then there are those that demand it.
And playing "On" the beat means the drums don't drag.
I listened to the drums and it's dragging which then makes you sound like you're rushing. There is also a thing of playing on the beat, behind or ahead (right?) and it has its uses. I went to the Beatbuddy 2 YT clip because it's a first to me to hear about this pedal. And even the sample with the guy playing an acoustic, the drums dragged.
The DOD loops I told you about, you can set the click to BPM and the loop will be really tight with the click once you line the tracks up in the DAW and that's a human playing so there will be human feel but not so much that one can notice and if one wants it tighter you can nudge the loops to a printed click so you have visual reference to make it tighter.
You must realize the machine is not listening to you since it's a machine. But again I did listen to the drum track and it drags.
Try this, print a click track in Reaper. Build your drum tracks. Either tap or just let it play and see if the downbeats are the same as the click. If not the same, nudge the drum hit to align with the click. It will take some time (no pain no gain?) and it has to be PER HIT. You might spend an hour doing just that so know it's not going to happen quick. Use zoom waveform so you can see the top of the hit and line those suckers up. And then play your bass part against the finished drum track. Then if YOU rush you will know it because you're playing against a steady beat. If you can't "hear" the out of time, you can visually check the wave forms to see if they are aligned.
Also note that songs are not always built bass part first. It's drums first and then you could play a guitar track, vocal, keys and then add bass track last to see all the holes left over to fill with music. And the same for any other instrument. Like making a movie. It's filmed out of sequence for a number of reasons.
Superior Drummer is fantastic - arguably the best drum software out there - but based on what you’ve told us, OP, I’d recommend starting with EZ Drummer.
Superior Drummer is much more expensive and has a steeper learning curve. If you do eventually “outgrow” EZD, you can crossgrade to SD and get a slight price break… although it’s always expensive software, regardless of your upgrade or crossgrade path.
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This is exactly what I did, EZD was powerful yet easy to learn. We triggered from my Roland kit and then I upgraded to Superior which has a HUGE library of kits to choose from.
OP not sure what your final objective is, but if you’re just composing/arranging for now why not use the built in drum packs in Garage Band on an iPad? Its free and will follow to auto build the drum track and you can easily create sections with different timings. I do this all the time to build draft song ideas to share with my band for writing. This all happens way before I ever get into my DAW to record.
Reaper user here. I use Steve Slate Drums for live-sounding drum samples and I love it. I've also heard great things about the other software mentioned in this thread.
Here's the workflow I've settled on over my time trying to make sampled drums sound real:
- Use reference tracks. If you like Danny Carey's drum sound in Undertow, then listen closely to both his tone and his patterns. Find isolated tracks on youtube or wherever and compare them with his sound in the mix.
- Figure out which kit sounds best for the song you're trying to make, and commit to it. Audition samples for maybe 15-20 minutes tops and then make a decision.
- Play a basic snare/kick pattern to a click (if you're especially skilled at playing drums on pads or a keyboard, then add more stuff, but I like to keep things simple the first time around). Adjust your midi data afterwards so that your pattern is tight, but not so tight that it sounds robotic. I personally don't quantize but you can certainly do that here.
- Add in your open/closed hi-hat pattern. Make it repetitive but don't be afraid to season it with small improvisations. Tighten it up, same principle as before.
- Add cymbals, toms, all that. Remember that even the sickest drummers only have four limbs.
- Let your drums and cymbals talk to each other. You added an improvisation to your hi-hat pattern that sounds cool? Maybe the toms answer back.
- Humanize the velocity of your instruments. This to me is hugely important and is the main difference between your drums sounding legit, or landing in the uncanny valley. The trick is to figure out roughly where you want your average velocity to be, bringing all the drums to that number, and then humanizing (the "H" key in Reaper) by like 8-12%. Because I'm obsessive I'll then go through each incidence of drum midi data and make sure that the computer's decision was a good one - this means manually raising or lowering the velocity by a couple of clicks until it sits where I want or keeping it where it is. I'll return to this step multiple times before mixing as I record additional instruments. You certainly don't have to go to these lengths but it helps.
If you want to hear what this sounds like in action, I recorded all the drums in this song using this method:
Here's the workflow I've settled on over my time trying to make sampled drums sound real:
- Use reference tracks. If you like Danny Carey's drum sound in Undertow, then listen closely to both his tone and his patterns. Find isolated tracks on youtube or wherever and compare them with his sound in the mix.
- Figure out which kit sounds best for the song you're trying to make, and commit to it. Audition samples for maybe 15-20 minutes tops and then make a decision.
- Play a basic snare/kick pattern to a click (if you're especially skilled at playing drums on pads or a keyboard, then add more stuff, but I like to keep things simple the first time around). Adjust your midi data afterwards so that your pattern is tight, but not so tight that it sounds robotic. I personally don't quantize but you can certainly do that here.
- Add in your open/closed hi-hat pattern. Make it repetitive but don't be afraid to season it with small improvisations. Tighten it up, same principle as before.
- Add cymbals, toms, all that. Remember that even the sickest drummers only have four limbs.
- Let your drums and cymbals talk to each other. You added an improvisation to your hi-hat pattern that sounds cool? Maybe the toms answer back.
- Humanize the velocity of your instruments. This to me is hugely important and is the main difference between your drums sounding legit, or landing in the uncanny valley. The trick is to figure out roughly where you want your average velocity to be, bringing all the drums to that number, and then humanizing (the "H" key in Reaper) by like 8-12%. Because I'm obsessive I'll then go through each incidence of drum midi data and make sure that the computer's decision was a good one - this means manually raising or lowering the velocity by a couple of clicks until it sits where I want or keeping it where it is. I'll return to this step multiple times before mixing as I record additional instruments. You certainly don't have to go to these lengths but it helps.
If you want to hear what this sounds like in action, I recorded all the drums in this song using this method:
I concur on this ^
Superior Drummer was the gold standard back when I was doing more home recording, but I ended up getting AD based on cost. It had some really good pre-configured beats and a good set of drum kits to choose from. I didn't scratch the surface on it, but here are some of the basic beats I used to make a few tracks:
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So I've used a ton of drum plugins for various purposes and I still use a few in my daw, but most of them are single purpose now. My main drum vst (for live/accoustic drums) is EZ Drummer 3 now. It is as easy as the name indicates, and it comes with a huge rec for me in terms of work flow and sound quality, plus it's pretty inexpensive. The only downside about it that I can tell is the pretty limited drumsets you get, but the addins aren't too pricey (around $90 / extra set - usually played by known drummers in their genres, but they also frequently have sales and bundles).
I don't typically use premade midi patterns, but it's got them and I'd bet you'll find stuff you like.
If you want to go fancier, I hear superior drummer is excellent, but both can produce studio quality sounding drums.
I actually EZDrummer to touch up some live recorded drums for a track we released, because the snare track was missing and the kick was not mic'd well.
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maybe giving a listen would help? I'm no expert producer, but I'm learning. I didn't "fix" the drum hits, just put the hits where they were in the recording
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another +1 for EZ Drummer or Superior Drummer. I use the latter with Reaper. No issues. For those that want to spend less time programming and more time writing and playing, it is an excellent option. It goes on sale pretty regularly as do the expansions. Based on experience I would tell you to expect to buy an expansion or two. It is worth the money and sounds like a real drummer minus the flexibility of sitting down with a live person that can adjust to your playing.
Everything will depend on your DAW and the processing power of your computer. I use an iMac, Logic Pro or Pro Tools Studio. With this system I can run Slate Drums and Modo Drum (IK), often both together. I like the result and they are VSTs within your budget. They can be used in a variety of ways, depending on the power of your system. They run very well here with an intermediate iMac.
I've used dod and when the loops are appropriate for my idea of how the song should be played they are wonderful.
Here's an example on a slightly bizarre western/ country tune of mine. The dod tracks are perfect.
I'm really not good at drum programming... For recording I tend to hover between an old Zoom Rhythmtrac 223, and a newer Alesis SR-18 with a footswitch for basic track beats and timing. I'll lay down either a guitar or bass track with the drum track and work from there (basically like a click).
If I need to "program" parts in my DAW I use the MT Power Drum Kit VST, it's a free download and you can get the full license for a donation. It has pre-recorded 3 and 4 beat loops you can drag and drop to build your drum section with starts, fills, and ends. After you create your loop you can drag it to your DAW and it builds the midi. The MT drum tones sound great.
On the analog side, the Rhythmtrac is easier to use, but the Alesis has better drum beats and sounds. Both ot these units have coin batteries soldered to the board, it's a pain but they can be replaced.
Good luck, you have lots of options
If I need to "program" parts in my DAW I use the MT Power Drum Kit VST, it's a free download and you can get the full license for a donation. It has pre-recorded 3 and 4 beat loops you can drag and drop to build your drum section with starts, fills, and ends. After you create your loop you can drag it to your DAW and it builds the midi. The MT drum tones sound great.
On the analog side, the Rhythmtrac is easier to use, but the Alesis has better drum beats and sounds. Both ot these units have coin batteries soldered to the board, it's a pain but they can be replaced.
Good luck, you have lots of options
Hey-ohthat sounds like what I’m after.
That's why they call it EZ Drummer
. Yeah, my little brain when it comes to a lot of that tech stuff is like a bb in a boxcar. However, I was building and programing beats pretty easily after a day of having it.It's also real friendly with midi controllers and such as well. (I think you said you have one?) I use a Nektar LX and assign the pads to EZD to make finger drumming/programming beats way more convenient & simple. And as others have posted, once you get into it, Toontracks Superior Drummer and Steven Slate Drums have expansive libraries of kits/sounds available if you feel it is warranted. For me the couple of kits that come installed (DW) and a couple midi packs is more than sufficient for my needs, as each drum can be tweaked (pitch/volume etc) within the program.
All in all, EZD wont give you much of a headache to learn and I think you will not be disappointed at all.
Great software. It might be overkill for the OP, but he did say he was willing to pay for a software so it's a damn good recommendation. It really has all the bells and whistles.
Not the person who recommended it or you asked, but it's fairly easy to use in a pretty basic but effective form. There's like 200gb of files for it, but it still manages to be pretty easy to pick up and use for a beginner imho. Changing out the kits is pretty easy and intuitive to do, as is using the grooves section. The grooves section has been invaluable to me over the years, and that's from someone who is pretty decent at programming drums. It's pretty extensive once you start scratching the surface of it, though. I'd say EZ drummer is a nice simpler alternative.
+1 on EzDrummer. It is easy to start with and can get crazy complex if you want to. I personally don't need to get into the weeds, nor do I have the time to learn how. It is great.
you keep saying that the drum 'machine'/program "drags." and you said that a lot of them "drag."
can you point out some "dragging" so we can all hear it --- files can get 'corrupted', and two machines may merge/diverge, over time, but inherent "dragging" has never been an issue in any of the software/hardware mentioned when i used them. edit: i'm sure we'd all like to be aware...a digital machine/program that doesn't perform as expected would really be a "drag."
TIA
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I’ll get to what I can later today.
