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Please Recommend Me Drum Production Software
- Thread starter Riff Ranger
- Start date
First of all it's something that can be (or should be) sensed.
Perhaps we should preface the word "a lot of them" with "all the ones I've heard."
To prove it use a click in your DAW up against your software/hardware as regards drum tracks. And we're talking recording for this example as time issues will stick out during playback if not immediately noticed.
I can't speak for other DAWs but I use PT HD3. When I print a click track and use DOD loops whatever the DOD loop's BPM is, laid up against the same BPM on the click, they sync up.
In this instance at least the two are in agreement.
When I listened to Riff Ranger's demo even though his focus was trying to get syncopation on a segment of the track, I could sense the machine he used dragged. I'm not sure whether the pedal was playing by itself or he was playing bass and tapping the drums live. But then as I mentioned I did go to a video of the pedal being advertised and noticed the pedal in the demo was dragging as well. It reminded me of a recording we did years ago using the top of the line in the day sequencer. The arranger did not sense the dragging but I did. And he was a Berklee composition major graduate. Actually it was a known issue that sequencers drag and there was a fix manipulating the sync tone. And we're talking multitrack 2 inch tape days.
To reiterate, it's something that is sensed but to prove it line the drums up against a good DAW's click track. Short of an ace drummer with great time, it's the best to date we can hope for.
Another insight to time is Rick Beato's quest for quantizing John Bonham's tracks based on the "grid mentality" of today's music creation. Problem with this, changing the feel of the drums would necessitate changing all the other tracks without considering that the feel they ended up with a given LZ song was arrived at serendipitously. And music creation is never played the same way twice. The magic created was a one time thing never to occur again which is why many tracks that became hits there were mistakes left in rather than fix them for fear of losing the feel.
Even today the best recordings there is a fair amount of nudging going on be it a vocal or what have you. Something that is a hold over of the splicing block on the tape machine. We have amazing gear these days, but we still have the task of creating proper music.
Here (below) is how hits are made and note to all musos if this is not happening you're not getting it done. I'm not saying I have all the answers but I can at least see the mountain top from down below before making the climb. Getting to the top is a whole other thing entirely:
you're running with several "timing" related issues at once, i got a little confused, but i haven't had the issue of "hearing" a digital source "dragging." doesn't matter: to bring them all together a 'house' wordclock is the typical tool, and/or making everything 'chase' the same time code, e.g., SMPTE.
Agreed. I could not follow the response at all. To me, if there are two digital sources and one of them is "dragging" I would first assume that the two sources are operating at different sample rates. Otherwise a sample-perfect sync should be easily possible, especially if we're talking about a VST hosted inside a DAW.
If one can sense a drum track dragging, then it is important to fix that issue.
If one can't sense a drum track dragging then whatever music created on top of that track is the creator's work around and their musical ideas will/should fit that track.
The Beato/Bonham issue.
Don't think when Led Zep et al created those songs they were concerned that the drums in the future would be seen as dragging.
If Rick had pursued quantizing the drum tracks then he would've needed all the other tracks on the song and remixed, realigned, nudged, calling the band in to re-sing/play parts until the original hit song was unrecognizable. It is what it is.
Point is the origination zone at the time the song was constructed.
The Ritchie Valens clip is key.
SMPTE has been around for a while and word clock is a normal connection feature on pro DAWs. And you have aftermarket word clock racks.
I would need an inspiring drum track as the initial basis for song construction. (Don't we all?) Hence my go-to is human drum loops. They hired a pro drummer who plays in time that puts feel in a drum hit loop.
Mannyinnewyork gets it.
Yes because the human drummer played parts that make sense as the rest of the song gets created.
The less I have to think about sync code and getting machines to follow along and the like, the better. Been there done that. And the drum track on the sequencer (mentioned in my last post) was such that it was just the kik, (along with synth tracks) the real drummer was left with snare, cymbals and fills because we didn't think he would be able to play the kik as it was too syncopated and would've caused problems with re-takes and he was a session player who reads. As the sequencer played the parts back it was too mechanical and it did indeed drag. Until we fixed it with a manipulated sync tone.
What ends up happening is it's either a drum song or it isn't. And most of the time it isn't. It's a song with vocals, lyrics, solos, comping, sweetening. The drums get mixed down to almost mono kik and snare. But what is the song built upon? The drums.
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All this talk of sequencers "dragging" is obscuring the OP's question and the many good answers they've received. To clarify this in regards to that: If you use a VST hosted in your DAW that is triggering sounds from a MIDI file there will be no "dragging." The sample will play in sample-accurate time.
That's if you use MIDI. Not everyone does. Music is more than MIDI. And as regards drum machines and software if one does not sense it drags then continue to not see all the options.
Of course not everyone uses MIDI, but the bulk of the suggestions given to the OP are MIDI-based solutions. In the context of this thread the notion of something "dragging" only serves to muddy the conversation.
MIDI isn't music at all. It's simply a set of instructions for something to happen.
I still have no idea what this sentence means. Perhaps you could start a dedicated thread on this topic and spell out succinctly what you're describing.
You misunderstood the comment. Of course MIDI is not "music" it's data but it's a process that some people who can't play in time use to get around playing in time. Hence there's more to music (creation) than using a crutch.
MIDI was invented by Dave Smith who pioneered polyphony on music synths. Sequential Circuits. He just passed this last May.
And even if the bulk of the suggestions given are MIDI that's not the OP's question. And my reply was to the OP's demo.
If you want to hamper the normal expansion of ideas then perhaps you should start the thread you suggested.
The OP posted a demo he made and that was my response, the drums dragged. And then it blossomed.
I listened to some of the suggestions (EZdrummer) and they drag. That's why I said it reminded me of the recording sessions we did using a sequencer.
Did we get anything out of the Ritchie Valens clip? Which one are we there in the scene? Bob Keane, Ritchie or his brother?
Unfortunately there will be those that get it and those that don't.
I still don't have any idea what you mean by this. Load an instance of EZD into a DAW, trigger a sample, bounce that to a new audio track. The two will be sample-accurate. How is that dragging?
The section you indicated has no other time reference to hear if something is dragging or not. It's a drum kit being played by itself. Further, there is no visual indication to see if the sounds are triggering at different times than the MIDI indicates.
Once again I'm left scratching my head as to what you're even describing.
I'm taking "dragging" to mean that something is experiencing tempo drift placing it behind the beat. Is that what you're describing? If so your clip does not demonstrate that as there's no time reference.
Ok here is a drum loop/kit played by itself. You need something else to tell if it's in time or not? You don't have a sense of time just listening to a drum kit? What happens to you if you're listening to a drum solo? What happens to you if you're dancing to a song? Do you get lost because you need something else to give you a sense of time?
Here straight ahead real drums in specific BPM.
More 4/4 Drum Loops
The YT EZdrummer clip is a stock AFIK rock pattern. It does not suggest playing behind the beat. To me it drags as it's on the video. If you can't tell then don't expect me to not be able to tell also.
I can tell real drum loops are on time.
And I did mention with these programs unless you're a drummer or have drummer sensibilities moving MIDI squares on a grid what a rabbit hole to go down into. And it's still all 1's and 0's. Unlike a human drummer which is analog. All the inbetweens no "either -or."
I'm not talking about MIDI even if others are.
If a drum track has to be worked on until it plays in time referenced against something else other than a click track IMO it's a waste of time.
Find a loop, link it together.
So that we can put an end to this, stick to your MIDI solution. I'm just putting it out there for real drummer loops. You want to construct songs or you want to tinker-toy around with endless drum possibilities?
If you're not a drummer get a real one.
You can still create entire drum tracks as it has individual snare, kik, tom, cymbal hits besides the loops.
Listen to some of the loops below. Can you get monster drummer licks like these from software?
Manic Metal Drum Loops I: Classic Double Kick
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That's entirely irrelevant and applies to any audio whether created in the analog domain or the digital one. How do you know what was being played, either by a human or a MIDI performance, to generate the sounds in the video you linked? You don't. You can't. You have no reference. If I clap my hands, then do it again some period of time later and all you heard was the recorded audio of that with no reference would you say that it's dragging? You might, but without a musical reference you physically could not tell whether or not something was in time or out of time, and even then would need to ignore a host of other factors.
It's apparent that you're trolling at this point, so onto the ignore list you go. That's number two for the week!
TL;DR
For myself, it's pretty common to create a (MIDI) tempo map, to slow down or speed up part of a song.
For myself, it's pretty common to create a (MIDI) tempo map, to slow down or speed up part of a song.
Was using Beta Monkey loops a few years ago. They sell sampled acoustic drum loops, fills, and one shot packs. You can chop the loops up with the DAW for more processing options. Requires a lot more work than a drum plugin. Currently using Logic Pro's Drum Kit Designer. Very flexible and you can deep dive into the various features of the plugin. I much prefer a drum plugin. Considering buying EZD or Superior Drummer in the near future.
Since reading this post the other day, I got to thinking (Uh oh) about EZD and opened up my Toontracks project manager, and low and behold there was an upgrade for EZD3. So immediately download. Man very cool and as easy (and better IMO) to use as EZD2.
Can do both easily. In EZD3 there is a tab "bandmate". You drag and drop an audio/file and it finds a bunch of grooves that work extremely well. It's nuts, I absolutely dig it. Sure, not every single beat is 100% perfect, but adjustments/edits can always be made. I've only had a chance to fool with it a short time, but being kinda lazy and not always wanting to take the time to program beats, I think I'll end up using this feature a whole bunch.
Can do both easily. In EZD3 there is a tab "bandmate". You drag and drop an audio/file and it finds a bunch of grooves that work extremely well. It's nuts, I absolutely dig it. Sure, not every single beat is 100% perfect, but adjustments/edits can always be made. I've only had a chance to fool with it a short time, but being kinda lazy and not always wanting to take the time to program beats, I think I'll end up using this feature a whole bunch.
Superior Drummer will have the OP paying for a bunch of features that he won't need.
