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Plectrum playing question

green3101

green3101

Aug 31, 2016
434
311
London
#1
I’ve been trying to improve my plectrum playing on Bass. I started out on bass and not guitar so I haven’t had tons of experience with it. However, I’ve started to get an ache and pain in my right wrist (plectrum hand - I’m right handed) does anyone have any suggestions how to combat this and ensure it doesn’t keep happening/getting worse? I’m holding the plectrum between my index finger and thumb as normal. Do you think I should rest up and wait for it to go away before re-attempting playing? The bass I’m using right now is a Höfner CT Violin bass with Labella Flats. I have a Gibson SG Reissue, a USA Precision and a USA Jazz. However, like I said it’s the Höfner I’m using most at the moment and these sound better/are better to play with a plectrum I find. Any help would be greatly appreciated, cheers

Edit: I should add the exact area of pain is in my wrist/forearms - from what I can gather is most likely the tendons. I’ve uploded a picture to try and highlight where the pain is. It feels painful currently, sort of a strained sensation.
 

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#2
First of all, yes, I would advise you to rest up for a day or two to allow the wrist to recover. Don't play through any pain. It will only make things worse. In the mean time you can read up about Carol Kaye's advice on playing with a pick. See tips 26 and 27 in this link.

The Official Carol Kaye Web Site


Here is another link to a lengthy thread on Carol's picking method.

Why I keep hammering the Carol Kaye pick method
 
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#3
fearceol said:
First of all, yes, I would advise you to rest up for a day or two to allow the wrist to recover. Don't play through any pain. It will only make things worse. In the mean time you can read up about Carol Kaye's advice on playing with a pick. See tips 26 and 27 in this link.

The Official Carol Kaye Web Site


Here is another link to a lengthy thread on Carol's picking method.

Why I keep hammering the Carol Kaye pick method
Click to expand...

Thanks for the advice, i’ll Certainly read up on this.

I don’t know how much difference this makes but it’s worth pointing out - I’m tall, around 6’3 and have long arms. However, I’m really out of proportion as my hands are very small and I’m a guy. Most other guy’s hands are bigger than mine despite being a lot smaller in height. Even a lot of women have bigger hands.

What I’m getting at here is that it can get quite awkward when I play bass because of my height relevant to my hand size. Here is a couple images of me practicing so you get an idea (again any tips on how I can improve my practice would be brilliant):
 

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#5
Maybe I missed it in my quick perusal of the old thread.

When you use a pick, you don’t use your wrist. Your wrist is not a point of articulation, your elbow is.

I know this will draw shame and flame but put the Hofner down. Use one of the Fenders to learn to use a pick. I’m also 6’3” and Hofners sit very awkwardly on me.

Use a heavy pick on songs with tons of eighth notes. Stand up. Always wear a strap when seated. Hold the pick as loosely as you can get away with. You should be dropping it occasionally as you learn.

If idiot guitar players can learn to use a pick, you can to.
 
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#6
fearceol said:
Nothing particularly "bad" jumps out at me from those pictures....except IMO it would be more beneficial to wear a strap even while seated.
Click to expand...
Thank you, I’ve just got myself a new Höfner strap which I’ll be putting on it tonight.

One of the main problems I encounter and where the pain probably hits hardest is when I’m playing the E string. I see that Carol mentions resting on the string above - however, when playing the E there is no other string to rest on. After reading the Thread about Carol’s technique posted by JimmyM - I noticed Jimmy mentioning playing nearer the neck. However when playing the E on the Höfner where would I rest my hand? The strings are raised up from the body quite a bit due to the design of the bass. Would I have to sort of “float”? I can imagine this would cause quite a lot f tension though.
 
#7
saabfender said:
Maybe I missed it in my quick perusal of the old thread.

When you use a pick, you don’t use your wrist. Your wrist is not a point of articulation, your elbow is.

I know this will draw shame and flame but put the Hofner down. Use one of the Fenders to learn to use a pick. I’m also 6’3” and Hofners sit very awkwardly on me.

Use a heavy pick on songs with tons of eighth notes. Stand up. Always wear a strap when seated. Hold the pick as loosely as you can get away with. You should be dropping it occasionally as you learn.

If idiot guitar players can learn to use a pick, you can to.
Click to expand...
Interesting - Carol Kaye’s Technique mentions that the elbow shouldn’t move and the motion comes from the wrist, as it’s different to playing guitar.
 
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#8
green3101 said:
Interesting - Carol Kaye’s Technique mentions that the elbow shouldn’t move and the motion comes from the wrist, as it’s different to playing guitar.
Click to expand...
Yes, exactly: All the motion is in the wrist.

Another thing Carol emphasizes is that there should also be no movement in the fingers. Some guitar players pick by moving the pick with their thumb and finger rather than the wrist, but you can't do this safely on a bass. O.P., if you are doing this I think it would explain why you are getting pain where you are.

Check out this video of Julie Slick, who IMHO is one of the best pick players out there. Keep an eye on her arm and wrist:

 
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#10
green3101 said:
Interesting - Carol Kaye’s Technique mentions that the elbow shouldn’t move and the motion comes from the wrist, as it’s different to playing guitar.
Click to expand...
How much rock or metal did she ever play? That wristy stuff won’t cut it for playing tons of notes. Try playing “Dirt Road Anthem” with your wrist. You’ll hurt yourself... just like the OP.
 
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#15
I’d look into a bass with a bigger body to develop picking skills on if there’s pain involved using a smaller body. The larger body (P,J, whatever) offers support to the arm area between the wrist and elbow that smaller bodies don’t.

Although I’ve studied with Carol Kaye, I don’t follow her picking regimen and was wise enough not to debate her on it. I almost always anchor my palm in the bridge, so I can get clear notes or palm muted notes easily. This even worked when I owned a Steinberger, which has a much smaller body than a Höfner. Physically, I had found the most comfortable posture that still got the job done by that time, so I never had any pain.

The movement from the elbow stuff is absolutely correct, but arguably applies only to heavy music requiring strict downstrokes. It does sound different than alternate picking. It’s impossible to play a lot of that stuff authentically without wearing the bass low and using more elbow than wrist to get the pick moving. C.J. Ramone played in pain and had to change his technique to accomodate.

As mentioned, this only applies to heavier music styles - Metallica, Ramones and the like. Anthony Jackson, Bobby Vega, and Carles Benavent are among the finest pick bass players out there, but they don’t play like that - it’s mostly wrist action and alternate picking for them.


 
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#18
I don't play with a pick much, but it may be worth an experiment to try strapping the bass up higher or lower on your body. I know, for example, that I prefer the bass to sit higher on my body when I work on slap stuff vs my normal finger plucking. Slap and picking use a similar wrist motion.

But, yes, rest to get past pain before you work at it again.
 
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#20
CJ Ramone (a non-technical but experienced player) had to lower his bass to his ankles in order to keep up/not lock up to play the live format of Ramones tunes. Try lowering your strap. It worked for me too. I've found a happy medium for plectrum and finger style.

Actually... I say CJ was non-technical, but have you ever tried to play along to California Sun on their live albums?
 
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