Plunging a router into a Dingwall - HELP

[VolverseLoco]

I just talked to the guy who is making my pickguard for this. He confirmed he will make me an additional special routing templete out of MDF. He said he uses a laser cutter to make all his cuts. I would need to get him the correct measurements of the EMG40 hole that needs to be routed, he doesnt have that information. I will be mounting these 2 EMG's butt up against eachother in the bass, in a staggerd configuration.

Does anyone here have the known measurments you have used your router to follow for this EMG40 pickup cavity that made the rectangle hole the perfect size for dropping these tapered EM40 pickups in ? I say tapered because the bottom measurements are a tiny bit bigger than the top measurements, plus I would need a little gap between the pickup sides and the wood, and since these will be up against each other, would I still need to account for that same size gap between the 2 EMG's where they will touch each other?

 

[dwizum]

If you've got the pickups in hand, can you just measure them across the wide point at the bottom?

In order to account for the wiggle room to the cavity wall, just wrap two or three layers of masking tape around them first.

And yes, I would plan on the equivalent gap between them.

 

[Obese Chess]

You're setting up your Combustion to have the NG- pickup variation and are getting a custom made carbon fiber pickguard? I think I have the carbon fiber guard from my NG-2 somewhere. Let me know if your guy doesn't come through.

 

[VolverseLoco]

You're setting up your Combustion to have the NG- pickup variation and are getting a custom made carbon fiber pickguard? I think I have the carbon fiber guard from my NG-2 somewhere. Let me know if your guy doesn't come through.

Ahh, and herein lies the problem. I do have the 4 sting Combustion. It has the stock round edge Dingwalls pickups, which, are the same exact length as the EMG40's (which are a 5 string bass pickup). So the pickguard he is making me has the 4 string neck pocket and the 5 string rectangle staggered but together EMG holes, which I really don't think exists. Now, also in this mess is the EMG's are naturally wider than the ones in there so when I put the EMG's together, the top edge of the top EMG does for sure encroach in my 'pick landing zone' thus I must move the entire 2 staggered EMG's (butted together), back 1/2" towards the saddles. This will now allow for the the top edge of the top EMG to be exactly where the top edge of the top Dingwall one is/was, now still keeping the same amount of my pick landing zone free and clear. Also in this custom pickguard build, the left bottom side of the pickguard had to be brought out a little to take in account of where it will touch the bottom left EMG side, so the curve on the entire left side of new pickguard is further out, but not by much. So it really is a custom pickguard all the way.

Also, you know how it is, when you find someone who does top quality work you wanna stay with him. He made me the NG2 pickguard to turn my regular Combustion into an NG2 style not too long ago and it was a class A job with the carbon fiber. So much for that, I put it up for sale here on TB for 1/2 of what I paid for it.

 

[Beej]

I just talked to the guy who is making my pickguard for this. He confirmed he will make me an additional special routing templete out of MDF. He said he uses a laser cutter to make all his cuts. I would need to get him the correct measurements of the EMG40 hole that needs to be routed, he doesnt have that information. I will be mounting these 2 EMG's butt up against eachother in the bass, in a staggerd configuration.

Does anyone here have the known measurments you have used your router to follow for this EMG40 pickup cavity that made the rectangle hole the perfect size for dropping these tapered EM40 pickups in ? I say tapered because the bottom measurements are a tiny bit bigger than the top measurements, plus I would need a little gap between the pickup sides and the wood, and since these will be up against each other, would I still need to account for that same size gap between the 2 EMG's where they will touch each other?

EMG's got your back
Invalid Link Removed

 

[VolverseLoco]

I am getting confused as to what type of router bit I should use that would then dictate the actual EMG routing template rectangle measurements. First of all, I cant find one single YouTube video of someone using a router with a pickup template that shows a close up of the bit they are using and their process of using that bit the first time and then how they adjust the bit to finish the job. All I see are guys telling you all about the template and then as ironic as it seems, the just PLUNGE their router into the wood and start cutting. No close ups or explanations of actually 'how' to set the router bit up and exactly their method.

I say this because there is a choice of using a bushing or a ball bearing assisted bit. Why can't I just use a 1/4" diameter all the way through (shaft size for my collet and cutting diameter) bit with no bearing and have the smooth part of the 1/4" bit shaft ride against the inside of my template? I hardly have any real wood to hog out, it's all open hole now, Im just trimming off what will get in my way. First I need to choose my bit and what method, then calculate the measurments, right?​

 

[VolverseLoco]

EMG's got your back
Invalid Link Removed

Yes, I have my 2 EMG's here already. I have calipers and I am measuring the base of them. I figure out the spacing I need between the pickup and the wood (relief space) to be the thickness of 3 white index cards, which is like .45mm. I have my other Jackson and RedSub that has the EMG holes in it from the factory and I took the spacing measurment from them. So I now know that the size of a single routed rectangle should be 103.00mm long x 39.45mm wide. In my post above is where im confused.

 

[TerribleTim68]

.... First of all, I cant find one single YouTube video of someone using a router with a pickup template that shows a close up of the bit they are using and their process of using that bit the first time and then how they adjust the bit to finish the job. All I see are guys telling you all about the template and then as ironic as it seems, the just PLUNGE their router into the wood and start cutting. No close ups or explanations of actually 'how' to set the router bit up and exactly their method....​

That's the glory of video editing, you get to remove all the parts where you screw it up or do it wrong and in the end you look like you know what you're doing and everybody thinks you're the smartest guitar builder ever!

There's lots of videos out there that show this process, but you kind of have to piece together several and take the key parts from each one. Nobody is gonna cover the whole thing start to finish because the ones who do want you to pay for a subscription to their website learning center, it's how they make a living.
But, try this video -

You'll probably never find one that shows close ups of the bits, because literally everybody has a different "favorite bit" and method of usage.

 

[VolverseLoco]

That's the glory of video editing, you get to remove all the parts where you screw it up or do it wrong and in the end you look like you know what you're doing and everybody thinks you're the smartest guitar builder ever!

There's lots of videos out there that show this process, but you kind of have to piece together several and take the key parts from each one. Nobody is gonna cover the whole thing start to finish because the ones who do want you to pay for a subscription to their website learning center, it's how they make a living.
But, try this video -

You'll probably never find one that shows close ups of the bits, because literally everybody has a different "favorite bit" and method of usage.

I have watched other videos this guy has done before, how can one forget him?..lol..He did confirm what I had *thought* I wanted to do and that is to use a 1/4" router bit, no bearing, so the shaft rides against the pickup template. I did learn from him that I can certainly hog out as much wood as possible with another bigger bit, being careful of course, but that final finishing cut I will do with the 1/4" no bearing bit. This is of course after I practice on another piece of wood.

 

[Matt Liebenau]

I think it’s been said here but the 1/4” bit with the shaft running on the template is doable but you want to be careful. With a bearing bit the router is spinning the bit at 25,000rpm or whatever it’s rated at but the bearing isn’t moving where it’s touching the pattern. With the shaft of the bit riding in the pattern and turning at that speed it can easily damage the pattern and end up cutting out wood where you don’t want it cut. Your plan is better idea if you are going to use that method. Route out the majority with a bigger, bearing bit then use the 1/4” bit cautiously in the corners or where it’s needed and only taking off a minimal amount of wood.

 

[VolverseLoco]

I think it’s been said here but the 1/4” bit with the shaft running on the template is doable but you want to be careful. With a bearing bit the router is spinning the bit at 25,000rpm or whatever it’s rated at but the bearing isn’t moving where it’s touching the pattern. With the shaft of the bit riding in the pattern and turning at that speed it can easily damage the pattern and end up cutting out wood where you don’t want it cut. Your plan is better idea if you are going to use that method. Route out the majority with a bigger, bearing bit then use the 1/4” bit cautiously in the corners or where it’s needed and only taking off a minimal amount of wood.

I am never in a hurry and always looking for something that just might be a little better. What do you think of this bit? 3 cutting edges and a ball bearing. Your right, that is some serious RPM's.

 

[Matt Liebenau]

Amana is typically a good brand in router bits, I’m sure it’s fine. I will add to the above that I’ve done what I described above several times with good results. Just use a 1/2” or 3/8” bit for most of it and the 1/4” in the corners. A smooth, quick pass and you’ll be fine. There won’t be much material left there after the larger bit. Now, if you want a new tool, that router bit isn’t a bad choice...

 

[dwizum]

I use the 3/8 version of that but for pretty much all cavity routing. It works well. One of my favorite bits. The shaft is stepped down to allow such a narrow bit so you need to treat it gently. But this kind of work should be done gently anyways so it's not a big deal.

 

[Slidlow]

I'd never plunge a router into a painted and/or finished body. You're gonna chip out the finish around the edge of your routing.

So what I have done from my first finished body mod (1987) is to start with the router bit just lightly touching the finish and drop it a couple of thousands for a few passes until I get below the finish surface. Then you can go deeper in larger steps without worrying about the finish. Alway worked perfectly.

 

[VolverseLoco]

 

[TrustRod]

Why can't I just use a 1/4" diameter all the way through (shaft size for my collet and cutting diameter) bit with no bearing and have the smooth part of the 1/4" bit shaft ride against the inside of my template?

You can, try some tests of course. You can get away with no bearing if you don't let the heat build up. A bigger bit with a bearing to remove most of the wood and then a smaller one with no bearing just to finish the corners will work well. MDF will allow this easier than acrylic would since it melts easily.
EDIT: I see I'm about the 5th person to say this

I was under the impression active EMG's could not be run in series, and yet here you are doing it

 

[VolverseLoco]

You can, try some tests of course. You can get away with no bearing if you don't let the heat build up. A bigger bit with a bearing to remove most of the wood and then a smaller one with no bearing just to finish the corners will work well. MDF will allow this easier than acrylic would since it melts easily.
EDIT: I see I'm about the 5th person to say this

I was under the impression active EMG's could not be run in series, and yet here you are doing it

Yes, I have 2 other basses that I purposely wired them in series to an 18volt supply with only a single volume control. It works Magnificently, at least for me. That's my sound, right there. Totally loving it and soon the Dingwall will be the same as my other 2 basses. All with the EMG 'JCS' types.

 

[Panada]

Before you start, can I just offer one other alternative you might consider? You could sell your Dingwall to someone who likes Dingwalls, and then get another bass that works better for you. I'm not implying you can't or shouldn't mod your bass, but it sounds like this is kind of stressing you out.

 

[VolverseLoco]

Before you start, can I just offer one other alternative you might consider? You could sell your Dingwall to someone who likes Dingwalls, and then get another bass that works better for you. I'm not implying you can't or shouldn't mod your bass, but it sounds like this is kind of stressing you out.

I like my Dingwall, a lot. I dont ever want to sell it, there is nothing that I would want in it's place (unless of course it was a custom build from scratch, but that is not going to happen). So, ok, I was perhaps stressing out in the beginning of all this hoopala but time corrected that. A few posts up is what I am doing right now. I am waiting for EMG to finish constructing me those pickups and my pickguard maker knows exactly what he needs to laser cut out of carbon fibers material. All of these new mods will not require any construction/destruction to the Dingwall at all, and that I am happy about. The overall job is simple and everything will fit perfectly into place.

 

[Panada]

So, ok, I was perhaps stressing out in the beginning of all this hoopala but time corrected that.

All of these new mods will not require any construction/destruction to the Dingwall at all, and that I am happy about. The overall job is simple and everything will fit perfectly into place.

Great! Glad to hear you found a solution you're comfortable with.