Double Bass Point of diminishing returns

[walking Bass]

When I started playing bass - a Gibson EB-2, Fender Dual Showman - I also worked at an auditorium where a symphony orchestra played. I had a set of keys and played one of the basses left behind. Very cool sounding and playing. I then went to a music store and looked at pricing and never wanted an upright bass again. I'd gotten spoiled.

I love playing beautiful and responsive instruments. On the other hand, I learned that Chacao (one of my bass playing favorites) rented whatever was available wherever he went. He also sounded fantastic.

If you're thinking about your instrument when you're playing, that's too bad. You should be thinking about the music.

 

[JBarz]

I "dumb lucked" into some heavy shows(John Cage's last composition for Merce Cunningham, Marshall Allen from Sun Ra's band, A quartet with both John Tchicai & Wadada Leo Smith and many more) early on and it was always terrifying and I did not enjoy it. Finally, with Cecil Taylor, it hit me that he had heard it all and wasn't going to be impressed and that the pleasure would be all mine. I set up shop by his left hand and let it all go. It was great and it turned out he was impressed.

Part of an important distinction you hear me harp on is knowing the difference to between playing and practicing. I warm up on tour and before concerts. I do not practice. The criticality required for practice is detrimental to concerts.
You have to learn to push yourself but enjoy what you have already worked for. Your bass playing is not your looks or something you are born with and we shouldn't have shrinking violet feeling about it. I look at it in a way like an artist looks at exhibitions. We don't want to be adding finishing strokes when the art is on the wall. We need to have a "pencils down" / "the art is leaving the studio" attitude toward performance. These mental shifts are a huge part of learning to enjoy the work.

Thank you for this. Ra Kalam similarly encouraged me to consider “stopping practicing and just play” last time I saw him. It’s a process - I’ll get there, lots of conditioning to undo. Thanks for your help as always.

 

[Eli Brockway]

I was pissed, but at my own dang self for leaning the bass on the amp instead of bothering to bring a stand. It was a terribly laid out bar that has the ‘bandstand’ adjacent to a narrow area everyone has to pass through to use the rest room. There’s no room and the band leader was stupidly insistent on how we set up, so I was right on the isle instead of the corner where I could/should have been. Lessons learned, but I like that bass even more because of it - like my car that’s all dented and scratched to hell. Zero anxiety about damaging it now!

That's even worse, although at least in that case my ire would be directed less at the people that knocked it over (which would be as easily done with most stands you could have used, in my experience) and more at the bandleader making me set-up in a spot where my gear was at risk like that. Put the less fragile stuff in the spots where it might get bumped into or knocked around.

Of course, I've also been lucky to only ever work with leaders on gigs where they won't argue with me when I say to at least leave a spot open where I can put my instrument out of the crossfire—makes me a lot more comfortable taking out my upright when I know the only one that might hurt it is me, because I certainly couldn't afford the cost of repair if the scroll broke or somebody put a hole through the ribs, and I know I'm a lot less likely to do that than people stumbling around who've had a few too many to drink.

I just put gouges in the top with my bow when I'm trying to pluck really loud down in the pit instead!

 

[Greg Clinkingbeard]

I confess to not reading the entire thread but, my thoughts.
-The best tool for any job my not be the BEST tool. Sometimes, a nice plywood bass will amplify better that an expensive carved bass. Players who take those gigs might consider that. If the bass will be used in an orchestra or to study seriously with a bow, the wants and needs will be different.
-Setup matters! I’ve seen people spend big money on basses and actually prefer certain aspects of cheaper basses due to their better setup.

What makes one bass sell for $40k and another sell for $4k? It may be due to the perception that the expensive one was handmade by a ‘name’ maker in this country. Sure, it’s probably a lot better instrument, but labor here is more expensive, there are economies of scale and other factors. However, I’ve seen several American basses with issues due to overly thin tops and undersized bass bars. No, I won’t name names.
Customers want basses that sound 100 years old on day one and that CAN lead to problems down the road.

Yea, there are diminishing returns in everything. Buy the best bass you can afford but buy the one that will be the best TOOL for the intended purpose. Don’t assume that price is directly related to the outcome.

 

[g-dude]

It’s only money.
You pay, then play for a life time, then sell for more than you paid.

Happens with homes*

*Offer not valid from 2007-2011. Your results may vary.

 

[Stuart.C]

I go through cycles where sometimes
I lose sight of the real goal of just being a part of great music, and start assessing (obsessing) my gear situation. (Strings, bow, rosin pick up ...)
Sometimes this has been fruitful, and led back to inspiration, others times i need some mental gymnastics to get back on the task at hand.
So when i played the $25k bass that sent me into a gear cycle, I thought "do I really need to spend $25k or maybe 10k could do it?"
I was hoping someone would say something like "you need minimum $10/$15/$20...to get that singing quality in a bass"
Then I could just say "well i can't afford that, so back to business"
And while I did kinda get that with a "its complicated", i didn't see a lot of responses claiming that a $3k bass is likely going have 'that' sound, as well.
I also got the determination to take my bass in to the shop and get new post fitted, going back in this sat for some fine tuning.
(The step that ultimately led me to love my ply, was getting the FB scoop reduced and adjusters put in for great pizz setup, I should have learned)

At rehearsal last night playing beside the super expensive bass, I had another thought, a $25k bass played out of tune is worse than a plywood played in tune. Also half the notes are pianissimo.

But don't get me wrong I believe everyone deserves a bass that effortlessly sings, if I could afford it I'd have one, but alas I cannot at this juncture.
So maybe I'll pick some new rosin too when take the bass in this Sat

Thanks TB
Aka bass support group

 

[damonsmith]

And while I did kinda get that with a "its complicated", i didn't see a lot of responses claiming that a $3k bass is likely going have 'that' sound, as well.

I know a well known NYC bassist who recently got nice old European bass owned by a bassist who played with Charlie Parker for 3K. 5-11k is a more common ballpark for a nice older European shop bass that is well set up. You can really get lucky in that area. Those older basses can have trouble but it is rarer than these discussions make you think.

The best tool for any job my not be the BEST tool. Sometimes, a nice plywood bass will amplify better that an expensive carved bass.

This was an exception to the rule in earlier times and only really true now if you are using outdated gear from the '80s & before. Updated amps and pick ups are closer and closer to translating the sound of the bass to the room. This should not be anything anyone banks on.

 

[Greg Clinkingbeard]

@damonsmith
A lot of the older European basses are really great and among the best choices for working bassists on jazz gigs, pit work or the occasional orchestra hit. And I’ve seen them sell for as low as $5k. Juzek, Wilfer, Jaeger, etc…..

Regarding your comment about amplification. Yes, amps have come a long way but we still have to deal with loud rooms, the bartender using the blender during our solos and the like. My point is that a good plywood bass will do the job very well in many situations where the nuance and beauty of a nice carved bass might be wasted. I take my Best bass most of the time, but am seldom disappointed by a good plywood. Some of the top jazz musicians I play with compliment the sound of the plywoods so I don’t feel like it’s a big downgrade. Do I hear the difference? Sure! But it’s not a big deal.

 

[rickwolff]

@damonsmith
A lot of the older European basses are really great and among the best choices for working bassists on jazz gigs, pit work or the occasional orchestra hit. And I’ve seen them sell for as low as $5k. Juzek, Wilfer, Jaeger, etc…..

Prime Example (My new bass bought here recently):

SOLD - 1930s 3/4 Czech flatback

 

[Lownotes_DG]

Get the best one you can afford, save money for better strings, if needed, and a pro setup.

 

[damonsmith]

@damonsmith
A lot of the older European basses are really great and among the best choices for working bassists on jazz gigs, pit work or the occasional orchestra hit. And I’ve seen them sell for as low as $5k. Juzek, Wilfer, Jaeger, etc…..

Yeah, and you can get the comparable basses without the names for even less. Also, buying from a person and not a shop will knock of a grand or more.