- Feb 12, 2006
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- Development Engineer-Mesa Boogie, Development Engineer-Genzler (pedals), Product Support-Genz Benz
I don't think those were intended to be transportable in a "band environment"...
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Poll for carbon fiber cabs owners
- Thread starter gtirard
- Start date
GR Bass use Jensen Sica speakers
I don't know but they seem to be very light, because GR Bass also have regular wood cabinets, that are also the lightest wood cabinet as far as I know.
Here's an example for a few 2x10 (the weight hierarchy between these brands is identical for all other driver configuration)
GR Bass wood cabinets are slightly lighter than Barefaced.
It's interesting to note that Markbass MB58R cabs, with their special composite material, are almost as light as GR Carbon Fiber cabs (and apparently more reliable)
| Brand | Model | Material | Kilos | Pounds |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| GR Bass | AT 210V+ | Carbon fiber | 8,8 Kg | 19,4 lbs |
| Markbass | MB58R 102 Pure | Composite | 9,8 kg | 21.6 lbs |
| GR Bass | GR 210V+ | Wood | 13,75 Kg | 30.31 lbs |
| Barefaced | Two 10 | Wood | 13 kg to 15 kg | 28 lbs to 33 lbs |
| Mesa Boogie | Subway 2x10 Ultra-Lite | Wood | 19,50 kg | 43 Lbs |
man those numbers are too close to call between BF and GR. it would seem the BF two10 with no HF driver is slightly lighter than the GR no-tweeter version whereas the bf two10t edges slightly heavier than the gr210V+ tweetered model, suggesting the HF module BF uses is slightly heavier than the tweeter GR uses. its a little vague though since the BF website rounds their weight specs to the nearest whole number. we're talking grams here and im mostly having a little fun with this; but if we're going to make a claim as to the lightest plywood 2x10, we'd really have to see a real world weigh off, taking into account sample variation in plywood weight.
Yes, there's no more question for me, since I prefer the sound of my BF cab which is only slightly heavier than the GR I had.man those numbers are too close to call between BF and GR. it would seem the BF two10 with no HF driver is slightly lighter than the GR no-tweeter version whereas the bf two10t edges slightly heavier than the gr210V+ tweetered model, suggesting the HF module BF uses is slightly heavier than the tweeter GR uses. its a little vague though since the BF website rounds their weight specs to the nearest whole number. we're talking grams here and im mostly having a little fun with this; but if we're going to make a claim as to the lightest plywood 2x10, we'd really have to see a real world weigh off, taking into account sample variation in plywood weight.
And regarding the weight, there's more than the rounding technique: I've seen a few comments on the main GR Bass thread, of clients who actually weighted their cab and it was maybe 15% or 20% heavier than the official spec. GR Bass answered that the spec is an average figure, but:
- I understand significant weight variation for plywood, I more surprised when it's carbon fiber (I would expect the weight variation to be less important for composite material)
- We never saw any customer who said he weighted his cab to be lighter than the spec. If the spec was "average", each time we see a customer with a cab that is 15% heavier than the spec, there should be another one who's cab is 15% lighter than the spec. Maybe these customers are hiding and remain silent?
- I know for sure that GR Bass marketing is *very optimistic* in all domains, so I'm pretty sure that the method they use to calculate the "average" weight is to select the lightest specimen they've built.
---------------
On the other hand, to be fair I'm pleasantly surprised by the result of the poll so far: there's a large majority of owners who had no issue at all, and would buy it again.
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Yeah, probably the "latin" culture
. I don't like to generalize, but I find Italians to be often optimistic.That said, I've lifted a MB58R cab in a music shop once, it felt really incredibly lightweight. I remember that it made me laugh.
Great for those who can tolerate that color.
Let me clarify: I am not saying that their cabs are heavy. I am saying that their cabs (the ones which I owned) were heavier than advertised...
If you want to get nitpicky - and I do because I'm still trying to decide what to do for amps/cabs - the MB58R is a lot heavier spec-for-spec than the GR.
MB58R 102 Pure claims 23.1 lbs with 400 watts RMS power handling:
MB58R 102 PURE – Markbass
www.markbass.it
AT-210V claims 17.86 lbs at the same 400 watts:
AT 210V – GRBass
www.grbass.com
So the MB is over 5 lbs or 29% heavier at the same spec according to the manufacturers.
Thanks for the correction.If you want to get nitpicky - and I do because I'm still trying to decide what to do for amps/cabs - the MB58R is a lot heavier spec-for-spec than the GR.
MB58R 102 Pure claims 23.1 lbs with 400 watts RMS power handling:
MB58R 102 PURE – Markbass
AT-210V claims 17.86 lbs at the same 400 watts:
AT 210V – GRBass
So the MB is over 5 lbs or 29% heavier at the same spec according to the manufacturers.
That said, if you are trying to decide between these 2 very lightweight cabs, I would advice you not to focus too much on the weight alone. For me, as long as the cab is "light enough", I favor other criteria. I've had 2 comparable cabs during one year: GR NF210V and Barefaced Super Compact. The BF was roughly 2Kg heavier, +20%. But it made no practical difference in real life, and I found the shape of the BF enclosure easier to carry. And I prefered the sound of the BF, and it felt more robust… so I sold the GR. GR Bass and Markbass cabs sound very different IME, so even with a 29% weight difference, I would choose the best sounding one if I were you (the one YOU prefer the sound of).
EDIT: and I would avoid making a choice between 2 cabs just from comparing specs. There is a huge discrepency in the way each brand measure their specs. Loudness is not only related to the max power handling, it also depends a lot on the sensitivity of the cab, and for example I've noticed that GR Bass is also very optimistic in the measurement of the sensititity, especially compared to Barefaced for example (more details here).
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If we're going to be nit-picky, it looks like you're comparing a cab without a HF device to one that has one. The GR with the tweeter is listed as 19.4 lbs., making the difference 3.7 lbs., so apples to apples, the MB is only 19% heavier. Percentage-wise, that's still significant, but if a difference of under 4 pounds is going to alter your decision, you're probably using the wrong criterion, IMHO. Plus, it sounds like GB's numbers might be somewhat suspect; I find it difficult to believe there could be a +/-15% variance in the weight of a finished product made either with manufactured composite panels OR with plywood.
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I’m not a fan of those yellow Kevlar drivers neither for both the look and sound but Markbass have a few cabs with "standard" black drivers so I wander if they sound great :Yeah, probably the "latin" culture
That said, I've lifted a MB58R cab in a music shop once, it felt really incredibly lightweight. I remember that it made me laugh.
Great for those who can tolerate that color.
I doubt it. Cabs and combos with black drivers are cheaper than the ones with yellow drivers...
There's less yellow, I'll give you that. Side note: local GC had a lightweight MB combo on display. I hefted it and thought "...hmmm...this has possibilities".
Riis
I don't know where you live, but here there's exactly zero chance of ever trying any of these things without buying them.
I'm also in a special situation where I'm under doctor's orders not to lift over 20 lbs for at least 6 months and ideally to not really lift heavy things ever, so the "it's only a few pounds, you whimp" is actually the wrong way to frame the discussion.
All of these builders have so many offerings it's apparently almost impossible to keep track of them - and it's certainly impossible to actually compare them all with my bass/band/amp/whatever without spending $50000 buying all of them and spending 2 years trying them all... at which point several new products will appear and the process starts over.
It's almost a bad thing to have so many options - you can NEVER know for sure that you have chosen the best one for you.
Wrong. The 19.4 lb "+" GR spec is for higher 600w vs 400w power handling. Both have HF drivers.
I stand corrected. But I do appreciate your not calling me a 'filthy liar.'
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Like I said, it's hard to keep track of all this. Apparently Markbass used to claim 21.x lbs for the 102 Pure instead of 23.x - and then they have a "MB58R 102 P" which is NOT the same as the "MB58R 102 Pure" - it's like they are trying to confuse their customers on purpose. P is different from Pure? The "ure" stands for Used Really Extra light stuff? Maybe in Italian it makes sense.I stand corrected. But I do appreciate your not calling me a 'filthy liar.'
Thanks for your reply. Ive been using MarkBass gear since 2009. I think they give the most for the $$$. I hear GR and Barefaced are much more expensive but I see way more MarkBass on world class stages.
At this point I'd be concerned about the GR carbon fiber cabinets durability.
I'll stick with MarkBass!
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Hey! I'm Italian and I love yellow. Lol!!Yeah, probably the "latin" culture
That said, I've lifted a MB58R cab in a music shop once, it felt really incredibly lightweight. I remember that it made me laugh.
Great for those who can tolerate that color.
Seriously, my wooden MarkBass cabinets have always been within a pound of stated specs. One of my Traveler 102p cabs was actually less than stated specs. Riccardo from MarkBass told me that there can be a slight fluctuation in weight because wood weight can vary.
