Possibly changing the pickups on my Music Man Caprice

[Littlefoot]

Hello! I am considering changing out the pickups and the bridge on my Caprice. I love the bass, but the tone and sustain are not great for the style music I'm playing, which is on a Worship team. I probably should have gotten the Cutlass, but I didn't really know what I needed when I bought the bass.

I am also considering just getting another bass, probably a P Bass with more of the Fender P bass sound.

I'm pretty new to playing, and I'm open to suggestions of the best course of action.

 

[LadyLoveStingRay5]

Hi. Welcome from another female bassist.

I wouldn’t try to mod. No direct fit replacements as far as I know.

I would just sell or trade for a Cutlass or a Fender P if that’s what you want.
Maybe you need to change your strings because I see no difference in a Cutlass , Caprice or Fender P for what you are describing . These basses are very similar so I don’t see that you would get a big difference in tone.

By the way, I own a Caprice and Praise and Worship and modern urban gospel is the main music I play. But my MusicMan Stingray Special 5HH is my main player for Praise and Worship / Gospel stuff. And my Sire V3-5 is my 2nd choice for that style of music.

 

[fermata]

Yeah, I wouldn't swap the pickups, either. Turn down (off) the bridge pickup, and you'll have a P bass. Or work at finding some good blends--don't assume the dominant pickup needs to be turned up all the way; blending often works best when they're both dialed back to varying degrees. Play with the tone control.

And changing strings will make a bigger difference than a changing pickups. (For example, I tried a two vastly different sets of strings on my bass, and they both made me strongly dislike the sound and feel of my bass. But I knew that was silly, because I bought it precisely for the sound and feel. Two other types of strings brought it back alive. The difference can be dramatic!)

Changing the bridge is not going to make a significant--or possibly even perceptible--difference in tone or sustain.

If you make any mods, you may well still not be happy (sustain, for instance, has more to do with the materials and construction than the parts you're talking about), and you'll significantly ding the resale value (and even if you put it all back together, you'll be out money on the parts you bought). So a strong 'don't mod' vote from me. Play with the knobs on you bass and amp (really twist them, take notes, try it home, try it in the band, etc.), and perhaps try some different sets of strings. You can get some good recommendations in the strings forum.

 

[Littlefoot]

I hear you both! And I will play with the settings some more to see if I can get more of what we are looking for.

But in case I decide to at least try some pick ups (since that's way less trouble than changing out the bridge), what are your thoughts on Nordstrand pickups? Seems that they have MM ones that would be a direct replacement. Thoughts?

 

[fermata]

Usually, MM means a Stingray-style humbucker, which would not fit.

I'll also add that, having swapped pickups on two basses, the change is likely not to be as dramatic as you're hoping; the essential character of the instrument remains pretty constant. In my case, I was upgrading cheap pickups to something better (and even then, the improvement was incremental), but since you're starting with very high quality pickups, the difference of a change is likely to be rather small--and with no guarantee of it being a change for the better. (The marketing language around pickups needs to be read with a good serving of salt.) If you do want to switch pickups, you need to be very clear about what sonic issue you're trying to address (and whether that sonic issue is affected by the pickups), or it's a pretty pointless (and pricey) excercise, and one I don't recommend for a bass of your quality and/or a new-ish player. Strings, on the other hand, might blow your mind.

 

[Littlefoot]

.....Strings, on the other hand, might blow your mind.

Ok, what strings would you recommend? I have Elixer Nanoweb nickels, light/medium blend. They are a couple months old.

 

[LadyLoveStingRay5]

I keep TI Flats on my Caprice. With the bridge pickup rolled off, its straight Pbass bliss. I like to close tone 75% off for that Motown / Pino Palladino old school thump .
If I want that Forget Me Nots tone I’ll run my tone 100%-75% open.

But if you need sustain, Ernie Ball Slinky rounds ( stock ) sound great. They just dont last as long as elixirs. But they sound great .


The Caprice and Cutlass were not on the market long enough for direct replacement pickups. These basses are being discontinued so I doubt if anyone ever will. Keep it stock. It will help keep its value.

Just so you know, the Cutlass pickup is higher output than the Caprice . It has a brighter more aggressive tone. It doesn’t sound like a traditional Fender P. Solo the Caprice P pickup and you have traditional P tones. The Cutlass is more akin to a late 70’s P or maybe a Yamaha BB. More grit and grind . If you completely close the tone on the Cutlass it won’t get you that traditional Motown thump. It stays pretty clear and present. So the tone knob doesn’t have as full of a range. And the neck is more like a traditional P and the Caprice has a J or Sterling size neck which is not as full or thick.


Some good info here . Official Musicman Caprice/Cutlass Club!

 

[LadyLoveStingRay5]

I hear you both! And I will play with the settings some more to see if I can get more of what we are looking for.

But in case I decide to at least try some pick ups (since that's way less trouble than changing out the bridge), what are your thoughts on Nordstrand pickups? Seems that they have MM ones that would be a direct replacement. Thoughts?

Do you have a favorite player or a particular tone toubare trying to achieve ? Any song examples you could share? That might help in giving you some suggestions?
Do you prefer 4 strings? Do you need a 5 for playing in those flat keys and key changes?

I found that I needed a 5. But everyone is different .

 

[MattZilla]

I agree with most other posters: start your strings journey.

Being that (reading between the lines) sustain is too much, start trying flatwounds, and/or various sponge/foam mutes under the strings near the bridge.

Chromes are a nice first flat, LaBella Deep Talking are rather extreme, but you may love them.


What amplifier are you using?

 

[secondbestcody]

From my understanding, the Caprice and Cutlass basses’ pickups are slightly smaller than a regular split coil P pickup. But they also aren’t split coil pickups, they are split humbuckers so they will give you a more gritty and aggressive tone than a split coil P pickup.

I wouldn’t swap them out because, like said before, there aren’t any direct replacements available. I would try messing with the EQ or swapping strings. Maybe try flats?

 

[Littlefoot]

I agree with most other posters: start your strings journey.

Being that (reading between the lines) sustain is too much, start trying flatwounds, and/or various sponge/foam mutes under the strings near the bridge.

Chromes are a nice first flat, LaBella Deep Talking are rather extreme, but you may love them.


What amplifier are you using?

Sustain is actually not long enough. My path into the system is: Aguilar TLC Compressor, Sonic Farm 2DI4, into the system. I sometimes bring my practice rig to church too as added monitoring, and to mic the 210, and that is ToneHammer 500 into Ampeg SVT-210HE & Ampeg SVT-15HE.

 

[fermata]

If I were you, I'd start by (temporarily, at least) simplifying your signal chain. Start with bass - amp (no compressor, etc.) - one cab (not both). Start with just one pickup on the bass, and set the amp flat. From there, start making systematic adjustments on the amp and bass, seeing if you can get closer to the sound you're after. If you succeed, start adding other components, and see where you lose the sound you like. If you don't succeed, you should be able to more clearly articulate what you're missing, and that can help folks here make string, etc. recommendations.

Also, if you can play some other basses at a music store through your amp/cab and/or play your bass through some other amps, that could be instructive, too.

I've gotta say...not enough sustain?

How long do you need notes to ring out? (Honest question!)

 

[Killed_by_Death]

I don't think it's even possible to find pickups that would fit:

The bridge pickup is too wide & the neck pickup is too narrow, in comparison:

There's a Twitch feed I watch weekly & sometimes they break out the MM Caprice & TBH it sounds great to me. (better than the Fenders & Gibsons)

IMHO the pickups are the biggest reason to buy a Cutlass or a Caprice, much like how the MFD pickups are what give the good G&Ls their sound.

 

[Littlefoot]

Maybe I better just keep it exactly as is (because I do really like playing it), use it for occasions when I need the sound of the Caprice, and get a 2nd bass for the sound we want for the worship team. Now, what sound is that? That one is tough for me to answer, because it isn't up to just me. But I will try to figure that out and post back!

Thank you all for chiming in so far! I really appreciate it!

 

[Fun Size Nick]

Big +1 to strings - that's where your tone starts, and they also have the biggest effect on sustain. Pickups won't have any real effect on sustain. My P wears La Bella Deep Talkin' Flats, and sometimes the sustain is a bit lacking for big long whole notes on ballads (the quicker decay is what I like about those strings though). When it wore Thomastik Jazz Flats, it had plenty of sustain for those whole notes.

Conveniently, strings are a much less labour-intensive element to change than pickups or bridge!

 

[bolophonic]

I 100% recommend changing strings before trying to chase tones through bridge and pickups swaps. Read up on different string reviews and try a couple.

 

[Toptube]

Hello! I am considering changing out the pickups and the bridge on my Caprice. I love the bass, but the tone and sustain are not great for the style music I'm playing, which is on a Worship team. I probably should have gotten the Cutlass, but I didn't really know what I needed when I bought the bass.

I am also considering just getting another bass, probably a P Bass with more of the Fender P bass sound.

I'm pretty new to playing, and I'm open to suggestions of the best course of action.

Maybe I missed it, but what are your tone goals?

 

[redwingxix]

I just got a new caprice two days ago and while I'm not a big fan of the MM sound, I love everything else about it. The neck is so smooth, love the controls and overalls looks of it, but trying to decide if it's a keeper for me. I had a stingray HH last year so this is my last shot for EBMM basses.

I did swap in a set of old TI flats on the E and A string last night that I had on an SB2 tribute and the difference was remarkable. Noticeably more low end, tone much closer to what I like. I wasn't paying much attention to sustain, but I will check it out. I currently have labellas on my P elite and a set of ernie ball flats laying aound and will probably go through and try them all out on the thing this weekend. As much as I love the way it plays and everything else about it, it's way too nice a bass for me to keep if it doesn't give me the sound I want.

 

[Littlefoot]

I have on my "to do" list to try to determine what strings to buy to try to see if I like the tone any better and if there is more sustain. I don't dislike the sound of the bass, I think it is cool for certain situations. It just doesn't sit in the mix as well as I (and the band leader) would like, no matter what I do with my pickup and tone knobs. Explaining what I need is tough, which is why I haven't tried from the questions people asked earlier.

I will agree, I love the neck, the look, the color (mine is light blue!), the weight. Maybe instead of reading more, I should just try TI flats, I've never used those at all. And you aren't the first person to suggest those!

 

[redwingxix]

I have on my "to do" list to try to determine what strings to buy to try to see if I like the tone any better and if there is more sustain. I don't dislike the sound of the bass, I think it is cool for certain situations. It just doesn't sit in the mix as well as I (and the band leader) would like, no matter what I do with my pickup and tone knobs. Explaining what I need is tough, which is why I haven't tried from the questions people asked earlier.

I will agree, I love the neck, the look, the color (mine is light blue!), the weight. Maybe instead of reading more, I should just try TI flats, I've never used those at all. And you aren't the first person to suggest those!

I had never tried them until a very generous TBer included a used set with a G & L SB2 tribute (it's sonic blue and looks identical to the caprice in your avatar) and I was really blown away by the sound and playability of them. I had tried Fender, Ernie Ball and La Bella strings and the TI Jazz flats turned out to be exactly what i was looking for. Mine also needs some minor setup and intonation work (to be expected when buying from GC) so I'll update if I come across anything useful.

Mine is the basic tobacco burst with rosewood neck and tort pickguard, but that's pretty much my favorite color scheme anyway so I'm thrilled.

Does yours also have just a hint of neck dive if you're using a smooth strap?