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Power Cable for a Bass Amp Question

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#161
I would say "don't knock it 'till you've heard it." I haven't but I will get the chance to though. I will be at Mr. Prock's store in Monterey post-NAMM for a clinic. I spoke to him today and I'll see for myself. Should be fun! Or funny. Or both.
 
#162
Do you look at a freaking meter when playing your bass, or do you listen to your amp and speakers?

There is almost always one typical response to most questions about which gear to buy: "Trust your own ears"
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This is spurious logic. When talking about something that may create a barely perceptable difference, it would be much more accurate to demonstrate that difference with measuring equipment.

Would you trust your ears to pick the difference between power cables in a packed bar playing a rock gig?

I agree that if the claim is that the cable makes an easily audible differnce in most situations, the appropriate test would be one using your ears...however it would need to be a blind test to ensure that ones ears were not being deceived by a perception that the cable "should" sound better. Also, all other variables should be eliminated from the test - at that point you can trust your own ears.
 
#163
Originally posted by ivanthetrble
Oh, I get it now. People who will spend megabucks on an amp will be more likely to spend megabucks for a power cord???;)
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Ding Ding Ding, We have a winner. :D

Also see the children's book " The Emperor's New Clothes" for a similar situation.

"Can you hear how much better this power cable sounds?"

"No."

"What, you can't hear the difference? Oh obviously your ears are too pedestrian to really be able to tell the difference like my ears can. Pity, I thought you would have been able to hear it like anyone with good hearing...."

"Oh, wait, I hear it now, it's so much fuller, brighter, it's like a veil has been lifted....."

Ridiculous.

Chris
 
#165
The thing seems pretty simple to me.

If you can't hear a difference, reliably and reproducibly, in a properly controlled blind testing environment, you can't hear it, period. You only think you can. There is no sonic difference worth talking about.

If you can hear a difference in a properly controlled blind testing environment, reliably and reproducibly, then something is really there, regardless of whether a given piece of measuring equipment can pick that "something" up and regardless of what the specs may say.

I await the QSC test results with interest.
 
#166
These personal snipes at one another should stop, IMO.

A bunch of folks here who's opinions we all should respect (and Bob Lee and Munjibunga are at the top of my list, as is Cable Guy/Long Ly) are going to try this stuff out. Why don't we wait until this has been done before we reach our conclusions?

That's what I'm going to do. I just found out I'll be all hooked up credential-wise for NAMM, so ya mo be dare. I'll be heading for the Tara Labs booth with an open mind.

The price difference between the TL stuff and anything else is dramatic to say the least. So, the results are going to need to be just as dramatic for me to be convinced. The statement that sticks in my mind the most was prockenklang's assertion that the difference is like "having a blanket over your amp and then taking it off." The bar's been set pretty high in my mind.

All I've been saying all along is that I'm willing to try the stuff before I make my conclusions. I'll trust my ears, and my ears only when it comes to what I'll buy and for how much. I understand where the engineer cats are coming from. But since specs mean absolutely nothing to me, specs are never going to affect my opinions regarding tone. It either sounds good...or it don't. Period.
 
#167
Originally posted by Richard Lindsey
The thing seems pretty simple to me.

If you can't hear a difference, reliably and reproducibly, in a properly controlled blind testing environment, you can't hear it, period. You only think you can. There is no sonic difference worth talking about.

If you can hear a difference in a properly controlled blind testing environment, reliably and reproducibly, then something is really there, regardless of whether a given piece of measuring equipment can pick that "something" up and regardless of what the specs may say.

I await the QSC test results with interest.
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Well said. Richard rules!
 
#168
Originally posted by Craig Garfinkel

All I've been saying all along is that I'm willing to try the stuff before I make my conclusions. I'll trust my ears, and my ears only when it comes to what I'll buy and for how much. I understand where the engineer cats are coming from. But since specs mean absolutely nothing to me, specs are never going to affect my opinions regarding tone. It either sounds good...or it don't. Period. [/B]
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The reason engineers get animated about this sort of thing is that watching some guy tell you, a non-engineer type, that a power cable is going to give you better tone, and then watching you, in an effort to be sincere and open minded about trying it for yourself before deciding, would be a lot like watching some new friend of yours straightfacedly claiming to you that the earth is actually flat and then seeing you sail off in the distance just to be sure, although in this case a trip to NAMM is probably not nearly as dangerous as a translatlantic ocean voyage, but you get the idea.

As I mentioned before, the assertion that a particular power cord can offer a substantive difference in the audible tone of an arbitrary amplifier over any properly constructed and rated power cable (which codes already mandate) is akin to claiming that eating 5 gallons of dill pickles will turn you into Charlie Parker. It simply has no basis in reality, despite the fact that it is both compelling and largely untested.
 
#170
Originally posted by metron
I feel your pain Mark! Transmission lines are by far the easiest part of the class once you learn how to use the Smith chart. The fun part is field analysis using vector calc. :spit:
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We did all the field stuff before we got to transmission lines. Now that I've done a bunch of it, the calculus isn't so bad. I never thought I'd say that.:D
We have an excellent instructor for this course, which helps. I like electromagnetics, I'm going to do antennas next term...:p
 
#171
Originally posted by metron
dude... :eek: :hiding:

Antennas arent bad. I found interest in VLSI so I went that route. The only thing I wish I had done was learn more about tube circuits. Enjoy e-mag! :p
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Perhaps I should have spelled electromagnetics right.:D
I've done two work terms in the ASIC design field, and I've come to realize that I don't want to be an IC designer. Actually, I'm hoping to get into audio design when I'm done. It's too bad that the don't do a course about tubes here, although I have a couple of profs who are into them...:D
 
#172
metron: Go to "www.audioasylum.com" and search the archives for topics such as "books" or "reading" in the "Tubes", "Tubes DIY" and "Bottlehead" forums. This question has been asked numerous times there, and you will find great lists of recommended books and links. The "Search" function is about 1/2 way down the right side of the main page.

Good luck!

jd
 
#175
Originally posted by Petebass
Bob while we've got the test bench set up, would it be possible to get a hold of some speaker cables that make similar claims, and run some blind tests on those?
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I think it was the Michigan HiFi Society who published a test a few years back where a panel of people including hifi experts was unable to discern any of a variety of expensive speaker cables from a simple piece of zipcord (i.e. the stuff your lamp cord is made out of), with any repeatability greater than random chance in an ABX test.

I've lost that link but if anyone's got it handy, I'd love to reread that.
 
#176
Originally posted by GooseYArd
I think it was the Michigan HiFi Society who published a test a few years back where a panel of people including hifi experts was unable to discern any of a variety of expensive speaker cables from a simple piece of zipcord (i.e. the stuff your lamp cord is made out of), with any repeatability greater than random chance in an ABX test.

I've lost that link but if anyone's got it handy, I'd love to reread that.
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I know. But there's a thread going around which is similar to this one except they're talking speaker cables instead of power chords. That thread got so hot I thought it was going to be resolved by a bare-knuckle boxing match rather than a blindfold test.

I just figure we can prove or disprove both theories at once with minimal additional effort.
 
#178
Originally posted by Petebass
Bob while we've got the test bench set up, would it be possible to get a hold of some speaker cables that make similar claims, and run some blind tests on those?
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Sure, if Long brings any. We don't have any on hand, and there's no justification for going out and buying any.
 
#180
I read an article once about Belden doing a type of speaker cable test in which they let the listeners see which cable they were listening to. Each time the speaker wire was changed, the reviewers would go on and on about how much better some aspect had gotten with the magicable, or how much worse it sounded with zipcord in place. The author said he couldn't bring himself to tell the guys when it was over that the speaker cable had never really been swapped - the lab techs had been instructed to walk behind the amp and speakers and make it look like they were swapping cables - they had been listening to zipcord the entire time!

I wish I could find a link to that article.

Chris
 
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