I doubt the OP is still paying attention (he said he was going with a generator at Post #!0), but it seems like the obvious solution is for him to get a new Tesla and plug an inverter into THAT. 
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Power for amp at outdoor gig
- Thread starter 2strings2frets
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Or he could go with the new hybrid F1500 with a 7.4-kW built in generator.I doubt the OP is still paying attention (he said he was going with a generator at Post #!0), but it seems like the obvious solution is for him to get a new Tesla and plug an inverter into THAT.
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Might be more than he's looking to spend.
If I were younger and still having to schlep a lot of gear around, I could get excited about this next generation of commercial work vehicles and SUVs that are just starting to come out. Meanwhile, I just hope the folks that plan the electric grids and generating plants are planning for the burgeoning demand for additional capacity.
Yabbut, they keep telling us to decrease our consumption by using LED lights and more efficient appliances!
FWIW, my bills over the Winter were high and I had switched from CFL to LED last Fall, in fixtures where the light quality/color don't matter to me. I guess I need to check the cost/KWh to see how much they jacked it up.
Al Kraft
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This is something many of the green revolution folks forget to take into account IMO. Right now a lot of what powers stuff flows through pipes and/or comes on barges/train cars and then gets converted to electricity or mechanical output via internal and external combustion processes. If one were to move to only electric powered devices tomorrow, I have no idea where the infrastructure to generate or distribute the power to meet the demand would come from.
Your point is well taken, but the change won't happen instantly.
In a lot of areas, more and more residences and organizations are going solar, deloading the grid. My own home is moderately sized and extremely efficient, but I still rate as a higher draw to my electric utility because, due to siting limitations, I'm one of the few in my neighborhood who hasn't gone solar. I fly little airplanes, and I'm amazed at the number of commercial buildings with large solar arrays now, and it's still growing and improving.
Also, there will be plenty of folks that will hold onto older IC vehicles as along as they can, as well as certain uses that won't make sense to convert for quite a while, like non-electrified rail lines and long haul trucking.
If the grid gets behind, it's also possible to adjust regulations and tax policy to stretch the conversion period. None of it is static.
Gruber Motor Company is a good example of how they're able to repair the batteries down to the cells
Model S - Main Battery Pack Repair | Gruber Motors
Right to repair is important in today's market, for all kinds or reasons, not just batteries.
I think there's probably a difference between a modular battery system that is designed to be serviced versus what you are describing, which seems more like a form of remanufacturing--In other words the individual cells are designed to be removed and replaced VS An assembly that a 3rd party wants the right to cut cells and build new cells into.
From what I understand Right to Repair involves situations where the company does not release parts, supporting documents, procedures, etc on how to perform repairs. For example I believe John Deere has been involved with suites on refusing to releasing reasonably priced parts and supporting documents related to repairing tractors.
The idea of remanufacturing a component while it's still inside the vehicle is sort of a new issue though. I don't think Tesla has any current responsibility to help 3rd party companies develop battery technology or the ability to remanufacture Tesla batteries. After Tesla's patents expire, generics will come available. AFAIK, that's the way it works.
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Yes, and it's a fairly involved, specialized form of service that's not something backyard mechanics and DIYers are going to be successful at. There is also a fair amount of danger within a 10kW+ battery pack in the event of an accident upon disassembly. An explosion and/or fire is often the result which is why specific protective wear is needed as well as knowing what NOT to do.
You will notice that they use the term "neutralization", this is a procedure that's essentially electrically disconnecting the defective cell once it's identified (in circuit via diagnostic software) and the disconnecting means may be via programming the cell out of the parallel block using the cell charge balancing FETs, or it may be physically disconnecting one accessible terminal. Note that they don't replace the cell or remove the cells from the module because this is unnecessarily disruptive, and this is only necessary for parasitic cells that provide a leakage path that discharges the module. Open cells are simply left in place and contribute to lowering the module/pack's total capacity.
The next level of repair is at the module level and at some point, especially when the pack's capacity drops to <80%, it's ultimately less expensive in the long term to rebuild the pack with new cells/modules because this indicates that the entire pack is nearing the end of its life.
I'm fairly familiar with the control systems behind the technology as it's also used in solar energy storage and inverters, as well as in a wide variety of (modern) electric vehicles such as forklifts, warehouse pick robots, etc.
I don't have a problem with people repairing equipment- I have been in consumer audio since 1978 and before that, I worked at a music store- repairs were a big part of both types of businesses and if everything needed to be sent in for repairs, the AV and musical instrument industries would never have grown to the extent we have seen. I have also worked for three boat dealers, in the service departments. Congress has no damn business getting in the way of people repairing their own things and if manufacturers want to see the demand for new products dry up, this is a very good way to make that happen.
However, many people will dive into a repair without knowing much, if anything, about doing it correctly or safely. I am a member of the MasterCraft boater forum and the reason I joined was due to someone responding to a complaint about a warning buzzer with "Cut the wire". That warning buzzer was there to indicate overheat or low oil pressure and if the buzzer fails or is defeated, the engine could easily 'grenade'- if it's under warranty, that ends as soon as someone defeats a warning device. OTOH, even when buzzers have been left connected, I have seen many with tape or silicone sealant on the hole, to decrease the level of the noise. Well, I have also seen engines that blew up because warning buzzers weren't hear, whether because the wire was cut, covered, excessive engine noise level or when the boat operator's hearing was so bad they didn't hear it.
If the engine has variable timing, too much/little advance can cause engine damage if it's operated near or at WOT- many people have no freaking idea how to set the timing correctly. Many people on that boater's forum would never think of touching their $20K car, but they'll dive head first into a >$100K boat that's under warranty without having a clue about how it works or what it needs to keep it going as designed.
Manufacturers don't exist to hold peoples' hand when they attempt repairs they aren't qualified to do- one of the biggest PITA for someone who provides goods and services is when people call to play twenty questions when a large number of others have done the same- anyone who hates being on hold for an hour needs to understand this and "hire more people" shows a complete lack of a clue.
YouTube has videos of the testimonies about Right To Repair- one of the best has a 16 year old kid explaining that he started repairing electronics when he was 12 and that he has built a decent-sized business from it. Another has a guy saying that he has sent items to Apple (one of the A-Hole companies that don't want outsiders repairing their crap) for repairs and, after being told that the memory would remain intact, he received a completely different piece, without ANY of the data, programs or apps that he likely paid for. I know someone who did repairs of phones, tablets and other devices- she was usually able to save the data unless the hard drive physically failed and if she had problems, she could get help from the guy who ran the computer store where she worked (rented a corner of the store)- he also did the repairs.
If anyone sees a petition that aims to preserve Right To Repair, please post it so we can sign it and stop the dirtbags who want to prevent it. We can also make the manufacturers know our thinking by not buying their products and communicating with them via e-mail, phone, etc. This isn't only being debated in the US- it's happening in Europe, from what I have read.
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On the other hand, there are plenty of highly UNDER-qualified persons (including technicians) attempting to repair products that they do not fully understand. Many of these folks simply do not really understand the technology even though they THINK they do. Many also don’t understand the safety aspects of such designs, leaving potentially dangerous conditions unrepaired even though the product APPEARS to function properly.
When a customer receives an improperly repaired product and continues to have problems, the frustration is often directed at the manufacturer, especially when the tech out of frustration or in an attempt to save face, blames the problem on the manufacturer (an easy target) rather than an unqualified, defective repair.
I see this sort of thing quite often, it’s discouraging.
Lets say in your boating world, a service person “fixes” an intermittent bilge alarm sensor fault by simply disabling the bilge alarm. The boat heads out to open sea and unbeknownst to the skipper, the bilge is slowly flooding due to a failing seal or defect in the hull, and the pump(s) are inoperative. By the time the skipper realizes there’s a problem, it’s too late.
This is the reason many industries have certification programs (for example the FAA), to insure that the training, the parts used and the testing/inspection meet the necessary standards for safety. For example, there is no “in the field” servicing of avionics, they usually swapped in the field and then are repaired by an FAA certified technician, following strict protocols set by the manufacturer, using certified parts, and then tested according to FCC protocols. The product then carries FCC recertification, which is traceable.
With many of the new products in the MI industry, they are complicated and are required to have multiple safety and EMC certifications m. When a repair is made on a safety or EMC critical area of the product, follow-up testing is often necessary, or even specifically required (especially in Europe) to maintain the certification. This is why manufacturers usually make such components “not field serviceable” as it’s not cost effective to repair (properly) in the field.
Another reason (for some products) is to protect intellectual property. This too can be a big issue to some product types, when a manufacturer invests hundreds of thousands (or millions of dollars) in developing technology, and given the virtual impossibility of enforcement in some regions of the world, maintaining all product service at the factory under strict security may be a practical necessity.
For another perspective, in all of these products, in the end it’s usually LESS expensive to replace entire sections (such as the SMPS, class D, power transformer, digital logic/interface) than repairing anyway.
When a customer receives an improperly repaired product and continues to have problems, the frustration is often directed at the manufacturer, especially when the tech out of frustration or in an attempt to save face, blames the problem on the manufacturer (an easy target) rather than an unqualified, defective repair.
I see this sort of thing quite often, it’s discouraging.
Lets say in your boating world, a service person “fixes” an intermittent bilge alarm sensor fault by simply disabling the bilge alarm. The boat heads out to open sea and unbeknownst to the skipper, the bilge is slowly flooding due to a failing seal or defect in the hull, and the pump(s) are inoperative. By the time the skipper realizes there’s a problem, it’s too late.
This is the reason many industries have certification programs (for example the FAA), to insure that the training, the parts used and the testing/inspection meet the necessary standards for safety. For example, there is no “in the field” servicing of avionics, they usually swapped in the field and then are repaired by an FAA certified technician, following strict protocols set by the manufacturer, using certified parts, and then tested according to FCC protocols. The product then carries FCC recertification, which is traceable.
With many of the new products in the MI industry, they are complicated and are required to have multiple safety and EMC certifications m. When a repair is made on a safety or EMC critical area of the product, follow-up testing is often necessary, or even specifically required (especially in Europe) to maintain the certification. This is why manufacturers usually make such components “not field serviceable” as it’s not cost effective to repair (properly) in the field.
Another reason (for some products) is to protect intellectual property. This too can be a big issue to some product types, when a manufacturer invests hundreds of thousands (or millions of dollars) in developing technology, and given the virtual impossibility of enforcement in some regions of the world, maintaining all product service at the factory under strict security may be a practical necessity.
For another perspective, in all of these products, in the end it’s usually LESS expensive to replace entire sections (such as the SMPS, class D, power transformer, digital logic/interface) than repairing anyway.
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Agreed
My take on right to repair is when the warranty expires. The manufacturers have all the repair data and procedures, and parts info. A qualified third party outfit like Gruber Motor Company can step in and provide alternatives to high cost repairs. In many cases provide it locally and employ more people. Due to them not being stuck with one brand they can provide services for many others.
I go to my representatives at state and national level. Things can be done at the state level. It's mainly for farm equipment and cars now, but it's got to expand many other things.
My take on right to repair is when the warranty expires. The manufacturers have all the repair data and procedures, and parts info. A qualified third party outfit like Gruber Motor Company can step in and provide alternatives to high cost repairs. In many cases provide it locally and employ more people. Due to them not being stuck with one brand they can provide services for many others.
I go to my representatives at state and national level. Things can be done at the state level. It's mainly for farm equipment and cars now, but it's got to expand many other things.
"On the other hand, there are plenty of highly UNDER-qualified persons (including technicians) attempting to repair products that they do not fully understand."- this is exactly what I was saying but at least end users have recourse when a dealer services something and a problem occurs.
Companies that use untrained people who are turned loose on customer property in a feeble attempt to make repairs need to yank their heads out of their butts- they're doing a huge disservice and risking their reputation and survival. I know many people who were in this position and their level of knowledge was just higher than that of a snail.
WRT boats- the marine industry needs to get in gear on this- many people work in service departments and have no clue about anything electrical and at this point, no dealer can afford to do that. ALL marine electronics are complex now and a lot of it is networked, so one piece going bad can shyte-can the whole boat when Radar, GPS, auto-pilot, radio, audio systems, engine/drive etc are interconnected and that can lead to disaster. Outboards use DTS (Mercury's Digital Throttle & Steering) or equivalent and one gauge can disable the boat if it has a problem. Outboards have been using O2 sensors and catalytic converters for years, but many are unaware of this when they try to diagnose problems. Several brands program break-in and Winterization procedures into the ECM and it removes the user from the process. These also need to be reset after oil changes and some other service steps, or the engine will be prevented from reaching full speed- it can also cause irreversible damage when this is ignored.
If the network's backbone isn't powered correctly, it won't work. On fuel-injected engines, lack of knowledge wastes time, causes people to use the proverbial 'parts cannon' as a way to find problems that could have been found in minutes using their required training, service manual and test equipment, rather than hours of hunting. Even someone who wasn't actually trained to do some jobs (me, as an example) can do many of the jobs if they know how to find the info needed but without the training in other areas (basic and advanced servicing, electrical and general marine service work for several years) but without the previous work, training and ability to find the specs in the manuals, I would never have attempted many jobs.
Looking at equipment used for audio (whether AV or musical instrument amplification), if someone doesn't know that they shouldn't avoid touching the chassis with one hand when touching circuits connected to charged capacitors, they can die. That doesn't stop some people blindly digging into things that are dangerous, though.
I don't understand how legislators could think that prohibiting service on-site by end users or their agents could be a good thing, especially when the item being out of service could damage a whole year's crop or stop a manufacturer's production until it has been repaired. If it happens during a weekend or in a remote location, they're screwed. Farmers have always needed to find ways to repair things- it's part of the deal because they're working long hours seven days a week and the places that would do it aren't always open.
Then again, they think Ethanol is a good fuel additive, so....
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- Feb 12, 2006
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- 220,973
- Disclosures
- Development Engineer-Mesa Boogie, Development Engineer-Genzler (pedals), Product Support-Genz Benz
Farmer workarounds have been responsible for a large number of injuries and deaths in the industry. One of my degrees is in agriculture engineering, I was involved with the first mechanized harvesting of tomatoes. No matter how many interlocks, no matter how effective they appeared, there was always someone who worked around these safety devices and in some cases lost fingers or hands. None of these folks has the necessary training and insisted it was their right to repair their equipment any way they saw fit. That arrogance causes a lot of accidents in the field.
A lot of it is the manufactures refusing access to the software code required to repair equipment once the hardware has been replaced. For example say you needed to replace a turbocharger on a diesel engine. John Deer (and others) are refusing to "authorize" the replacement turbo so the engine will start. If John Deere installs the turbo they simply do the proper reprogramming to get the new turbo to talk to the rest of the tractor.
Is this a matter of getting them to shakehands or reprogramming because the new turbo has different characteristics.
I could see the point if reprogramming is required. Hard to see a defense if it's just a matter of getting the new turbo to shake hands.
Was doing this back in the 80s in marching band, nice to meet another band geek that did this. Medina Mustang marching band Medina NY.
