"Practice like we play"

[pwhalen]

Have a new side project and an old discussion has reared it's ugly head.

I always considered "practice like we play" an excuse for playing louder than necessary in rehearsal (usually coming from guitars or drums), but I've seen the idea supported quite a bit on this forum as well. Is there an actual benefit to this? If so, why does it always seems to be volume related, and not (for instance) in reference to lining up like on stage with poor sightlines, or transitioning quickly between songs, etc?

As I said, I don't really buy into it, but before I squash the idea I'm curious to see if there is some factor to this that I'm not considering.

 

[sqlb3rn]

In my last band, our amps were all facing each other, kinda like in a circle. When we played our first gig, we could hardly hear each other, so the next rehearsal, we set up our amps beside the drummer like we were on stage, so we could be used to the sound (not being able to hear everything).

 

[Gravedigger Dav]

There are 3 levels.
Practice - This is a solo event to learn your part to the song.
Rehearsal - This is where the band puts the parts together and works out any issues
Dress Rehearsal - This is where you rehearse the song exactly like you will do it live.

This sequence of events isn't followed as well as it should be.

 

[pwhalen]

Practice - This is a solo event to learn your part to the song.

Yes, practice is definitely being used incorrectly here. The dispute is rehearsal related. Maybe these guys actually do practice at 100db, though I doubt it. I like the dress-rehearsal idea though, keep most of the rehearsals at a normal volume and then let it be turned up somewhat for one last one before a gig. Honestly though, oftentimes the gigs require a lower level than the rehearsals.

 

[Grumry]

Turn your crap down and use the PA and monitors to help you hear.

 

[mambo4]

"practice like we play" should not mean "play loud"

It means arrange your rehearsal as much like an actual gig as possible.
as @sqlb3rn points out it is very easy to set up in a way that trains you for unnecessary difficulties.
like practicing poor technique habits, you can set yourself up for failure.

Also, don't simply practice executing the material: actually rehearse your performance.
band that consistently do this will outshine those that expect to get on stage and 'just wing it'.

 

[DirtDog]

Volume attenuation is something you could try to rehearse as well as songs, arrangements, dynamics, etc. Because how will you know how to control your volume in a live setting (when the inevitable happens) if you've never rehearsed that before? You'll need an SPL meter for that - one of the smartphone SPL apps would suffice. Challenge yourself to play your music at 85dB, 90db, 95 dB and so on so you'll know how to achieve that live.

Like @Gravedigger Dav said, basic rehearsal should be used to iron out all the little variables. If you can't hear mistakes, how are you going to correct them? not every rehearsal needs to be full volume - a rehearsal one week could be intros/outtros/transtions; a rehearsal next week could be vocal harmonies, the next rehearsal could be new tunes...and so on...

The dress rehearsal is critical as well: using the same gear, setup/stage plot, lighting, volume, intensity, setlist, etc that you would use live lessens the anxiety/chance of trainwreck if you're thrown a curveball. Also gives you a chance to troubleshoot any setup and/or teardown issues.

There's a couple of places we play where I'd like to mimic the less than stellar stage setup in rehearsal so we can figure out how to set up live without maiming each other! We're also at the point where no one deploys a new piece of gear without test driving it in rehearsal beforehand. We've had a couple of issues with those vocal harmonizer pedals in a live setting. We had one guitar player who loved plugging in a series of tone sucking pedals into a tone sucking amp that just didn't work with the sound we were trying to achieve. Never again.

We're not Nazis about this, but we do try to be somewhat prepared.

 

[pwhalen]

If "practice like we play" should not mean "play loud"

It means arrange your rehearsal as much like an actual gig as possible.
as @sqlb3rn points out it is very easy to set up in a way that trains you for unnecessary difficulties.
like practicing poor technique habits, you can set yourself up for failure.

Also, don't simply practice executing the material: actually rehearse your performance.
band that consistently do this will outshine those that expect to get on stage and 'just wing it'.

Thanks. And unfortunately so far this requirement only seems to be applied to volume. Maybe there's a way to use this to the bands advantage by conceding the volume issue (don't really care that much except for the idea of needing to be loud live in the first place as everything is going to monitor mixes anyway) but then enforcing on no noodling, no downtime, work on performance (blocking) etc. Mostly I'm just wondering about the wisdom of the idea in the first place. If a difference in volume is going to throw you off your game, then the million other things that can go wrong live are more likely to get inside your head as well.

 

[Oddly]

Some great advice here.
Currently at rehearsal stage with a band for a show in July but we have earmarked our last two rehearsal nights for full dress rehearsal...one of them actually in the venue with it's PA system.
I don't like surprises...

 

[mambo4]

And unfortunately so far this requirement only seems to be applied to volume.

volume is the job of sound reinforcement and sound guys, not musicians.
too few bands realize how high stage volume can be a detriment to how good you sound.
In my experience, if you can sound good at low volume, everything at the gig gets easier:
the sound guy can make you sound amazing for the room, your stage monitors are better, you can hear each other, you don't go deaf prematurely...

But i'm too old. YMMV

 

[pwhalen]

You'll need an SPL meter for that - one of the smartphone SPL apps would suffice. Challenge yourself to play your music at 85dB, 90db, 95 dB and so on so you'll know how to achieve that live.

I have a couple that I used to mitigate volume wars in a different setting. Unfortunately in this case I am running into the "need to drive tubes for tone" argument. Also, getting the drummer under 105db is a challenge in itself. The funny part is this project isn't really near being ready live yet anyway - more of a fun project but this is just bringing up an argument I haven't had in a few years

 

[DirtDog]

I feel your pain! While I love the sound of my guitarist's 40W custom tweed amp, I like it when he brings his '66 Princeton out. Much easier to get a good tone at lower volumes. Always a challenge with the drums and my drummer will willingly use his small club kit and hot rods. He doesn't like brushes. We play classic country so we don't need super intense volumes to do this music justice. It's easy to play loud, much more difficult to play with restraint. I have vocal chord polyps and a persistent case of tinnitus as a result of years of playing too loud. I'm a slave driver for band volume these days.

I have a couple that I used to mitigate volume wars in a different setting. Unfortunately in this case I am running into the "need to drive tubes for tone" argument. Also, getting the drummer under 105db is a challenge in itself. The funny part is this project isn't really near being ready live yet anyway - more of a fun project but this is just bringing up an argument I haven't had in a few years

 

[yodedude2]

There are 3 levels.
Practice - This is a solo event to learn your part to the song.
Rehearsal - This is where the band puts the parts together and works out any issues
Dress Rehearsal - This is where you rehearse the song exactly like you will do it live.

this i like.

 

[4dog]

I always took "practice how you play" to mean if someone screws up somewhere ...you start the song from the tippy top.

 

[Steve]

if you don't make any distinction between practicing and rehearsing I guess that might not be a problem but then, not making any distinction between practicing and rehearsing would be the problem

I guess it depends on how you play. Nobody is getting me to rehearse or practice at 105db that's for sure

 

[JimmyM]

I always took "practice how you play" to mean if someone screws up somewhere ...you start the song from the tippy top.

You do that on gigs?

 

[Bodeanly]

...full dress rehearsal...one of them actually in the venue with it's PA system.
I don't like surprises...

That must be pretty amazing. In the 90s, we got to rehearse at a club where our drummer ran sound. We did that until another band found our instrument stash and made off with most of it. The place was eventually torn down and replaced with condos. And that's my cool story, bro.

To stay on topic, one of my bands rehearses as though every rehearsal is a show. There's not even a word for what the other one does.

 

[Cowboy in Latvia]

Actually, I had a bit of trouble with this on last week's gig. I am used to being told to turn down so I play at a pretty quiet level. The problem was that the backline was an Eden WT550 with an Eden 212 plus PA support...no way to make that thing quiet. It was actually disconcerting to hear my sound so loud even though it blended well with the others on stage. I will now be practicing sometimes at a higher volume so I'm not afraid of my sound on stage.

The other side to this is the old sport adage "what you do in practice you do in the game". The way you rehearse heavily influences the way you perform. That includes volume which influences what kind of hearing protection you choose on a regular basis. If you're not well versed in what works for you then you may have a few nasty surprises after a gig. Case in point? I have persistent tinitus in the ear that was next to the drummer at a pep band game because I didn't know how loud he would be in that concrete pit until it was too late to bring earplugs.

 

[pwhalen]

if you don't make any distinction between practicing and rehearsing I guess that might not be a problem but then, not making any distinction between practicing and rehearsing would be the problem

I guess it depends on how you play. Nobody is getting me to rehearse or practice at 105db that's for sure

There is a distinction between the two. I was quoting an often used phrase which misuses the term practice to indicate rehearsal.

And I'm just trying to see if someone can present a valid reason for rehearsing at those levels before I address the issue. It seems so far that there is no real valid reason to be that loud...

 

[electracoyote]

We rehearse through a JamHub, all headphone with individual mixers. There is no way for us to rehearse like we will play on our stages.

Fortunately, we have the experience to quickly adjust from rehearsal space to stage, keep our stage sound appropriate, not incite volume wars, have a good FOH sound, and our ears adjust almost immediately.

Indeed, I've never had a rehearsal space that wasn't a completely artificial representation of how we sound in actual venues and stages. Rehearsal has always been mainly for reference and arrangements, and the stage has always been a completely different sonic experience.