"Practice like we play"

[Downunderwonder]

I think there are definite merits to rehearsing as loud as you play live. For one thing, it can help you realize that you're playing too loud live. So the idea isn't to turn up at rehearsal, but to turn down live. As a bassist I like it so that I know I am bringing the right rig to a gig. A Dr. Jekyll / Mr. Hyde drummer has surprised me in the past, playing a small cocktail kit very quietly in rehearsal and showing up for a gig with 4 toms and 6 cymbals, a huge bass drum and a big deep snare and then pounding the crap out of it. I was trying to make a go of it with a 112 rig, and I was not happy.

my jazz band drummer surprised the hell out of me when we had a gig outside without PA and badaboom, he was pounding the hell out of his kick and giving the rest a good bash too. Good thing I had plenty of rig or I would have been in the same boat.

 

[Steadfast]

My band does dress rehearsals including practicing movement. We play all original stuff.

Before the dress rehearsal we practice together to work out transitions, beginnings and what not and to discuss and arrange the music specifically for the next gig. Sometimes on a new song the parts don't gel with a particular player--so, we find what works. This is rare and is time consuming.

If you come to my rehearsal with music notes I cancel the band practice until the joker gets it right on his/her own.

You have to already know you song parts before arriving at band rehearsal or you are not ready to rehearse as a band.

Now--I play in other bands where I just show up to the gig. One of the bands I play with is brilliant and it is killer every time. Rehearsal might kill that band's vibe. lol

 

[Gravedigger Dav]

No band I play in rehearses like it plays. We play quietly, because excessive volume covers up mistakes. Also because if you can control dynamics at low volumes, you can be subtle about it. (You all do play softly on stage sometimes, don't you?) We stand/sit in a rough circle and look at each other, because eye contact is extremely useful when you're working out an arrangement. And what is this "always from the top" stuff? You work through the parts that aren't working. Waste of time to always play all the way through. When all the kinks are worked out, we might up the volume a little, but certainly not to the level we play on a gig.

That is #2 on my list. That is Rehearsal. Once you get it down, then you should do it like a live show. That is dress rehearsal.

 

[Brother Goose]

I'm a proponent of practicing like you play:

At a reasonable volume.

Facing an imaginary audience.

In spandex.

 

[socialleper]

Have a new side project and an old discussion has reared it's ugly head.

I always considered "practice like we play" an excuse for playing louder than necessary in rehearsal (usually coming from guitars or drums), but I've seen the idea supported quite a bit on this forum as well. Is there an actual benefit to this? If so, why does it always seems to be volume related, and not (for instance) in reference to lining up like on stage with poor sightlines, or transitioning quickly between songs, etc?

As I said, I don't really buy into it, but before I squash the idea I'm curious to see if there is some factor to this that I'm not considering.

For my band it means all of those things.
We play at show volume so we can get our tones right, and make the balance work.
Our gear and positions are arranged like they would be during a performance.
After we've learned our new material and are working on set lists, we work on song transitions and who stands where and when. The practice before a show (when we are in "playing out mode" we play about once a month) it is mostly a dress rehearsal, with maybe a little less energy so we don't come away dripping wet and totally exhausted.

I think volume tends to add a little energy to the performance, and that's why people like playing a little louder than is "necessary." Otherwise it feels like the playing equivalent of drinking non-alcoholic beer, ie super unsatisfying.

 

[pwhalen]

Best thing we ever did was to put sound board around the drums(above cymbal height). Contained the loudness so the drummer could play like he like he was used to. Another thing I would do now, if possible, is to hang sound board above the drums.

It was a very inexpensive alternative to building a box and worked way better than I thought it would. It allow everyone else to reduce volume by 1/3 to 1/2.

Another thing to try is to get Amps to ear level or at least tilted back.

I realize this is not "practice like we play" but IMO, is a more practical setup to keep your hearing for just a bit longer than you need it.

I've seen Sound Board referenced on these boards before, but when I do a search the results don't seem to be what I'm looking for. Do you know who the manufacturer is?

 

[Bunk McNulty]

That is #2 on my list. That is Rehearsal. Once you get it down, then you should do it like a live show. That is dress rehearsal.

Nah, we're fearless. Besides, nothing whips it into shape like playing it in front of an audience. And our BL checks out audience response. If response is not good, and we can figure out why, we make changes. If it still doesn't work, it's gone and on to the next one. Similarly, if we feel like we're really struggling with something in practice/rehearsal, we'll just drop it.

PS: I derive my atttitude toward throwing the song into the drink and seeing if it swims from the great Invalid Link Removed, King of Cape Cod Rock'n'Roll. He'd introduce a new song by saying "Here goes nothin'...and that's a promise!"

 

[el murdoque]

My approach to this is that you should always play as quietly as possible.

For band volume the two issues are:

1. Drums. The drumkit has no volume button. You need to amplify the rest of the band to match the drumkit.
If the person behind the drumkit is a hard hitter with no feeling for playing softly, well this is talkbass - fire the drummer

2. Guitar tube amp saturation.
A thirty watts tube head with a 2x12 guitar cabinet can get pretty loud if you want it to sound pushed hard.
There are ways around that as well. Put a microphone case in front of the guitar amp, use an attentuator or a head that can be switched to less watts - or a smaller cabinet.

If your problem is that the Sax player is too loud, then you should think about quitting music

I do play in a band where one guitard has no feeling whatsoever for this and the other happily jumps on the loudness-war-train. This is the band where i bring my trusty ol' molded earbuds with filters and just plug my ears. The Drummer in this band actually struggles to keep up with the guitars and the tone of the guitard is not that much into saturation, but i gave up after bringing up the issue for about a million times.

 

[Steadfast]

@el murdoque

"If your problem is that the Sax player is too loud, then you should think about quitting music"

Preach it bro. As a sax player--it is so frustrating to be at a rehearsal without PA trying to compete with asshat guitarists.

To often over the years I have encountered soundmen that don't think the sax needs a mic too--in a rock band. On all my sax gigs--I bring my Bose L1. No problem anymore.

 

[el murdoque]

@el murdoque

"If your problem is that the Sax player is too loud, then you should think about quitting music"

Preach it bro. As a sax player--it is so frustrating to be at a rehearsal without PA trying to compete with asshat guitarists.

To often over the years I have encountered soundmen that don't think the sax needs a mic too--in a rock band. On all my sax gigs--I bring my Bose L1. No problem anymore.

In one of my last bands, we had a sax and a trumpet. The sax guy was our limiting factor. Live, he was miced, but at rehearsal, the BL forced us to play silent enough so the sax could be heard.

 

[Steve]

It seems so far that there is no real valid reason to be that loud...

There really is none beyond "It's part of the rock and roll fantasy I'm trying to live over here. Stop harshing my buzz"

Which, is a pretty valid reason as far as reasons go

 

[EastCoastThump]

In general, I'm for low-volume rehearsals—especially in commercial friendly vocal genres, my preference is to rehearse very quietly.

But some genres play with the sound of interactive loops between the instruments and stage amps—that zone between runaway feedback and absolute isolation between drivers and pickups. If the band wants to do anything controlled and interesting with that aspect of amplified sound, some of the rehearsal and arranging sessions require enough volume so you're not just playing the notes but playing with the interacting overtones.

 

[jive1]

If the band has vocal harmonies, then I don't recommend practicing at gig volume until you get those parts down. Too often, you think you're hitting the notes on stage with a wall of sound, while to the audience it is totally out of tune. And often when practicing at high volumes, you don't hear mistakes especially when you have a dominant instrument (i.e. guitard with stack) covering up everyone else's sound. Next thing you know, you'll have a volume war. Then, unless you have ear plugs, you'll get TTS (Temporary Threshold Shift) which results in temporary hearing loss which covers up your mistakes even more.

For my bands, we don't rehearse like we play. First, we play a variety of rooms and there is no way I can get our rehearsal space to sound like it's outdoors, in the corner of a pub, a banquet hall, or concert stage. Second, we have substantial PA systems that are too much of pain to haul and set up just for rehearsal, when a single vocal monitor works just fine for rehearsal. The PA is for gigs, and it's packed up and ready to go, not set up in the rehearsal room.

Unless you just want to get your rocks off, it's better to rehearse at low to medium volumes unless you're in a noise band like Sunn where you need to overtones. IME, if you want to go loud, let the sound man do it. If you're going loud on your own, you'll limit what the sound man can do for you due to excessive volume. One of the most common critiques of a soundman is that folks can't hear the vocals. If it's too loud on stage, there will be too much bleed which will limit what the soundman can do for vocals or anything for that matter. It's easy to play loud, as any beginner can show you, but it takes some skill and discipline to play at low to moderate volumes.

 

[4dog]

You do that on gigs?

Well yeah ...doesnt everyone...you know what i meant...or do i have to.....

 

[micguy]

In fairness my current drummer is the most controlled I've ever met - he is consistently the one insisting volume is too loud at rehearsal. Our guitarists hate him.

OK, this is sacrilege, but...DON'T fire THAT drummer.

Or, if you do, give me his contact info.

 

[Stumbo]

I've seen Sound Board referenced on these boards before, but when I do a search the results don't seem to be what I'm looking for. Do you know who the manufacturer is?

This is close to the old school stuff:
Sound Choice 1/2 in. x 4 ft. x 8 ft. R-1.32 Insulation Sheathing Board 717008 at The Home Depot - Mobile

I would also paint the drum facing side with Lizard Skin.
Invalid Link Removed

Edit: Checked price of Lizard Skin more closely. IMO, Lizard Skin is too expensive fir my DIY sound blocker. Alternatively, I'd visit a local upholstery shop and have some low-density foam cut to size (About 2-3 inches thick) and use contact glue to mount it on the sound board.. Possibly cover the foam with material too. Very inexpensive.

 

[sharkbait130]

If your band is rehearsing (practicing) in a 10 x 15 basement at the same volumes you are playing a gig at , you are doing it wrong!

 

[WashburnAB95]

To me "practice like you play" means bringing the same level of seriousness and professionalism that you would bring to a gig, not necessarily with the same setup and volume. Now "dress rehearsals" are a different animal.

 

[bumperbass]

volume is the job of sound reinforcement and sound guys, not musicians.
too few bands realize how high stage volume can be a detriment to how good you sound.
In my experience, if you can sound good at low volume, everything at the gig gets easier:
the sound guy can make you sound amazing for the room, your stage monitors are better, you can hear each other, you don't go deaf prematurely...

But i'm too old. YMMV

I agree to everything you said. However, there are certain high energy songs that don't feel right and don't sound right without a certain level I'll call "more than enough" when playing live.
For example, that's why you won't play a rip-snortin' AC/DC song at 99% of wedding receptions.
A few years ago I was playing in a trio where the guitar player was always too loud; that's too loud to bother micing. We decided one night to play the old fashioned way......vocals ONLY in PA with touch of the bass drum and a very slight sprinkle of my bass. We played that way until that band busted.
It's not that we were loud enough on stage where ear damage was of concern. It was just that stage volume + PA volume was too much for the clubs we were playing. We discovered to bonuses with this plan:
1. Didn't need a sound man
2. Vocals didn't compete with too much through the PA, so they were crystal clear and could be heard.

 

[Korladis]

For my band it means all of those things.
We play at show volume so we can get our tones right, and make the balance work.
Our gear and positions are arranged like they would be during a performance.
After we've learned our new material and are working on set lists, we work on song transitions and who stands where and when. The practice before a show (when we are in "playing out mode" we play about once a month) it is mostly a dress rehearsal, with maybe a little less energy so we don't come away dripping wet and totally exhausted.

I think volume tends to add a little energy to the performance, and that's why people like playing a little louder than is "necessary." Otherwise it feels like the playing equivalent of drinking non-alcoholic beer, ie super unsatisfying.

Indeed. Playing so quietly that you can easily talk over the amps isn't very fun.

Also there are some things that just sound different (even with ear plugs in) loud than they do quiet. The instrument responds differently.

In general, I'm for low-volume rehearsals—especially in commercial friendly vocal genres, my preference is to rehearse very quietly.

But some genres play with the sound of interactive loops between the instruments and stage amps—that zone between runaway feedback and absolute isolation between drivers and pickups. If the band wants to do anything controlled and interesting with that aspect of amplified sound, some of the rehearsal and arranging sessions require enough volume so you're not just playing the notes but playing with the interacting overtones.

Exactly, as far as the second point. There are a lot of times when we're using the interaction of the loud amps and the instruments. That just wouldn't work at super quiet volumes.

To me "practice like you play" means bringing the same level of seriousness and professionalism that you would bring to a gig, not necessarily with the same setup and volume. Now "dress rehearsals" are a different animal.

And trying to keep between-song chit-chat and goofing off to a minimum.