Double Bass Preamp recommendations for Realist

[bilias]

Hi,

I'm in the process of buying a preamp for my upright bass (curved) - no arco.
It has a Realist Copperhead piezo pickup which I believe is at 10M ohms.
Bass is connected to a Phil Jones Suitcase. I don't think there is a matching input impedance.

Ideally the preamp should have 10M Input, DI output for PA + ground switch, HPF, Phase switch.
Would be nice to have (I guess) Notch, EQ and only 1 channel to save €.

I have a big bass 7/8 which gives a warm and rich natural sound especially on the low end, but the sound with the Realist is a lot different (a bit muddy and excessive on the midrange-low mid). My old Shadow 965 NFX-B was much cleaner but it got broken and I though I should try the Realist.

I live in EU/Greece so I can't get an fdeck - which is quite often recommended here.

After much reading I come up to these:

Fishman Platinum Pro-EQ Analog
Radial Tonebone AC Driver
Headway EDM-1 H.E.
EBS Stanley Clarke Signature Acoustic Preamp
Broughton Messenger (probably I can't find this in EU)

Thoughts?

The less amp personality the better (transparent).
Fishman seems to cover everything but I'm not sure if it gives too much of it's sound-personality.

thanks

 

[JBarz]

When I was playing a realist into PJB suitcase the best preamp was … the Fdeck HPF PRE. (Sorry, but it’s exactly what you’re looking for!)

Send me a private message, I can sell you my series 1 or series 3 and we’ll figure out shipping.

 

[jj.833]

I used Realist Copperhead with
- Fishman Pro EQ Platinum (the old, heavy grey plastic) - worked ok, though the sound seemed to me a bit noisy and artificial
- Sansamp Para driver DI - was much clearer sounding and I loved it. Didnt have phase switch, but Realist never needed it much.

I never had PJB but I seem to recall that people are plugging piezos directly to it as it has high impedance input... someone wiser will surely chime in; meanwhile check your search abilities here on TB.

Nowadays I use Ehrlund pickup with its own preamp, which has only the Phase button and no other possibilities to tweak. The Ehrlund pre sounds clearest of all preams I had. As time goes, I believe more and more that clarity is the most important quality of any DB equipment.

Check on how to get the Fdeck stuff?

 

[Ric Vice]

The Realist (Copper Head) was designed to work at a 1 Meg Ohm load straight into most modern amplifiers. The easiest way to get rid of the muddy low end you’re experiencing is to switch to the Realist Life Line. Phil Jones amplifiers are set at 4 Meg Ohm which is ideal for piezo pickups like the Realist. My take is that all you’ll need is a inexpensive low cut filter of some kind to solve your problem. If you decide you really need a preamplifier then the RedEye single channel (built in the U.S.)
Is a exceptional value and will greatly improve the timbre (tone color) any pickup I’ve used it with

www.fire-eye.com

 

[Greg Clinkingbeard]

When I was playing a realist into PJB suitcase the best preamp was … the Fdeck HPF PRE. (Sorry, but it’s exactly what you’re looking for!)

Send me a private message, I can sell you my series 1 or series 3 and we’ll figure out shipping.

The Copperhead on that bass will be boomy so the FDeck HPF is perfect. It is simple and very effective.

 

[bilias]

The Copperhead on that bass will be boomy so the FDeck HPF is perfect. It is simple and very effective.

Tell be about it...

I 'm quite sure the fdec will be more than fine but does not ship from US to EU.
Maybe I can arrange something with @zootsaxes
I also gave the schematics of fdec to a friend of mine and he said he can build it. Let's see how this goes.

Alternatives?

 

[bassically_eli]

As others have said, my Realist Copperhead always worked well with 1 Meg-ohm or more, as does my Lifeline. The Lifeline is much better and clearer to me (but still works well with arco, which is important to me).

 

[bilias]

... Phil Jones amplifiers are set at 4 Meg Ohm which is ideal for piezo pickups like the Realist...

For the Briefcase I have, yes the manual also verifies that - Passive: 125mV/4.7MΩ / Active: 300mV
For Suitcase I'm not sure. Manual does not state it. High input: 30mV-1.5V / Low input: 80mV-3V
Sound is also much different.
I've send an email today to PJB for specifics.

In advance due to Suitcase' limited 1 band MID EQ setting you cannot filter out unwanted frequencies adequately as in Briefcase 5-EQ. If I cut everything (filter out the muddiness) then I luck volume.
That's why apart from the HPF I was aiming for a preamp that includes EQ.

I will also try in gig I have a friend's Boss GE-7B Bass Equalizer and see, although I've read that this is at 470 kOhm

 

[Earl]

The Realist (Copper Head) was designed to work at a 1 Meg Ohm load straight into most modern amplifiers. The easiest way to get rid of the muddy low end you’re experiencing is to switch to the Realist Life Line. Phil Jones amplifiers are set at 4 Meg Ohm which is ideal for piezo pickups like the Realist. My take is that all you’ll need is a inexpensive low cut filter of some kind to solve your problem. If you decide you really need a preamplifier then the RedEye single channel (built in the U.S.)
Is a exceptional value and will greatly improve the timbre (tone color) any pickup I’ve used it with

www.fire-eye.com

Not all Phil Jones are 4 meg. My Double Four is 1 meg.

 

[Earl]

I use an EDM1 weekly with a Realist on a club's house bass and the variable HPF cleans up the mud nicely.

 

[Francois Blais]

I will also try in gig I have a friend's Boss GE-7B Bass Equalizer and see, although I've read that this is at 470 kOhm

Maybe you can insert the Boss EQ in the effects loop of the PJB, if it has one.

 

[sean_on_bass]

Honestly my copper Realist performs best plugged right into the amp. I then utilize the amp EQ to cut bass/mids to where i can tolerate the tone.

 

[Ric Vice]

Maybe you can insert the Boss EQ in the effects loop of the PJB, if it has one.

Although I have not used it for many years, I found the Boss GEB-7 Bass EQ pedal to not be a good add on to the GK 200MB and the Realist Pickup I was using at the time. The sensitivity of the EQ bands on the pedal

would either cut to much of that band leaving you with a very weak sound in the lower frequency bands or boost to much and give you feed back in those same frequency areas. It also introduced

a fair amount of white noise into the signal if the upper bands were boosted. Just my take of course, I loved the GEB-7 with Bass Guitar.

 

[Jeff Kissell]

LR Baggs Para DI
Fishman Platinum Stage DI
Tech 21 ParaDriver DI

I run a Copper Realist into a tube pre (Sushi Box Slampegg Bee) and then into my amp generally but the DIs listed are inexpensive (especially used) and plenty versatile.

 

[Ric Vice]

Not all Phil Jones are 4 meg. My Double Four is 1 meg.

Earl,
If memory serves me the Super Flight Case, Flight Case, Brief Case, and Suit Case are all set at 4.7 Meg Ohms. The Double Four is a bit later in the PJB amp production runs.

 

[Francois Blais]

Although I have not used it for many years, I found the Boss GEB-7 Bass EQ pedal to not be a good add on to the GK 200MB and the Realist Pickup I was using at the time.

Thanks, I was just giving an idea on how to use that friend's EQ even if its input impedance would not give good results if it was plugged in front because of its low input impedance.

 

[bilias]

The Realist (Copper Head) was designed to work at a 1 Meg Ohm load straight into most modern amplifiers. The easiest way to get rid of the muddy low end you’re experiencing is to switch to the Realist Life Line. Phil Jones amplifiers are set at 4 Meg Ohm which is ideal for piezo pickups like the Realist. My take is that all you’ll need is a inexpensive low cut filter of some kind to solve your problem. If you decide you really need a preamplifier then the RedEye single channel (built in the U.S.)
Is a exceptional value and will greatly improve the timbre (tone color) any pickup I’ve used it with

www.fire-eye.com

I'm also looking at this Red-Eye which probably can be bought in EU too and solves the DI problem.
I've also read that big red-eye thread and everyone is happy with that.

How does it combines with the fdeck?
Either red-eye -> fdeck -> amp or (and RE-DI -> PA / no HPFpre there)
fdeck-> red-eye -> amp (and RE-DI -> PA)

 

[TroyK]

I think, especially with the Realist, the HPF is more important than any pre-amp magic.

 

[Wasnex]

Sounds like the Realist Copperhead is simply not an ideal choice for you. If your bass is extremely resonant, you would probably benefit by selecting a pickup that focuses more on the strings and less on the bass's body.

IMHO the main reason to use this pickup is if you do a lot of bowing. It actually works pretty well with arco, but in my experience the pizz sound is not what I would consider great. Since you say "no arco", almost any other decent pickup should probably be better a better choice for you.

In my experience the Realist tends to focus a bit too much on the body of the bass. So if your bass is resonant, the Realist will tend to overemphasize the resonance which can result in a boxy pizz sound.

In my experience this resonance can be wide band, meaning you can't effectively address it with corrective EQ without gutting the sound and punch of the instrument. I think the frequency range is around 200-400hz range, which is too high be effectively controlled with an HPF.

In my experience, the Copperhead tends to work better with pizz on a bass that is perhaps less resonant and not particularly good acoustically. I.E., a bass that is somewhat weak and thin sounding acoustically.

The Copperhead does not require 10Meg. A piezo pickup interacts with the input impedance of the amp to form an HPF. If the impedance is too low, the cutoff of the HPF will be too high. By raising the impedance, the cutoff moves to a lower frequency. AFAIK, at 10Meg the cutoff will be super low. Also if the impedance is too high the circuit becomes underdamped and ringy, which can make the resulting sound woolly and cause the bass to become more prone to feedback.

1Meg should work fine, although I believe it may not be ideal. A slight improvement may be possible by raising the impedance between 2-5Meg. The change is likely to be extremely subtle. In all honesty I think you will be better off using the money you would spend on processing to get a pickup that better meets your needs.

 

[Ric Vice]

Troy,
I would have agreed with that until I purchased a RedEye Preamp. It makes any pickup sound better, especially my realist life line. The box is very simple with only a line in and out, boost, boost gain, and treble control. Just my take of course, there’s nothing wrong with FDeck’s HPF.