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Precision vs. Jazz identity crisis

D

dougjwray

Jul 20, 2005
7,055
7,931
#1
I know this type of thing has been discussed before, but it always interests and puzzles me.
I own several P-Basses and Jazz Basses, of different wood combinations and strung with flats vs. rounds, etc., and it almost never fails that I get the most compliments for my sound when I'm using a Jazz Bass, yet from *my perspective while playing*, a Jazz sounds anemic and a P-Bass is more visceral and... more audible! My Jazzes have all had the series/parallel mod, plus I never shy away from trying different pickup blends when in parallel mode... yet the P-Basses just rattle my chest more and sound "louder." (Always with reasonable volume and usually with flat, or nearly flat, EQ settings on amps.)
To make things more complicated, I've often preferred the sound of Jazz Basses when I hear *other* people play them. But when I play them... again, they sound and "feel" weak and bland compared to a P-Bass.
Last night, I played at an open mic, and a couple of people told me again that my Jazz sounded great... even though I felt like I was working overtime to get any balls out of it.
I remember reading Will Lee's observation that Jazz Basses just seem to cut through a mix better. Maybe they cut through to everyone in the room... except *me*?
Anyone else want to comment on this form of psychoacoustic derangement? :confused:
 
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#5
buldog5151bass said:
What you hear on stage is not the same as what the audience is hearing, both from location, and how the bass fits in the mix. It also depends on the type of music. Both basses have tons of great tone. Experiment and have fun. I play both.
Click to expand...
All true. I've also had great luck with Jazz Basses in the studio. Live, I consider the kind of music, as you said, and the room's acoustics.
By the way, I've been playing steadily (pro and semi-pro) for over 45 years... so part of the frustration in my original post comes from STILL not having figured this out.:D
One anecdote: back around 1985, I bought a P-Bass after not having one for awhile and using only a Jazz Bass. My girlfriend had heard only the Jazz Bass for two years, and after my first gig with the P-Bass, she said, "I could hear you for the first time." Same band, same music, same venues throughout. So I guess it's not unanimous...
 
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#7
dougjwray said:
All true. I've also had great luck with Jazz Basses in the studio. Live, I consider the kind of music, as you said, and the room's acoustics.
By the way, I've been playing steadily (pro and semi-pro) for over 45 years... so part of the frustration in my original post comes from STILL not having figured this out.:D
One anecdote: back around 1985, I bought a P-Bass after not having one for awhile and using only a Jazz Bass. My girlfriend had heard only the Jazz Bass for two years, and after my first gig with the P-Bass, she said, "I could hear you for the first time." Same band, same music, same venues throughout. So I guess it's not unanimous...
Click to expand...

Although there are plenty of variables, I have always considered the P bass the best for cutting through a mix - plenty of mids, which isn't your "bedroom tone, but works with a band. Js have a wider range - more of a solo tone.
 
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#8
Not sure the style of music you play but normally a Pbass shouldn't "cut" through the mix it should blend perfectly "within" the mix. It should make the mix sound fuller.

Next gig bring both basses and ask friend or sound man to record your set so you can hear what the audience hears. Maybe you just need a better onstage setup to hear your self better?
 
#9
dougjwray said:
I know this type of thing has been discussed before, but it always interests and puzzles me.
I own several P-Basses and Jazz Basses, of different wood combinations and strung with flats vs. rounds, etc., and it almost never fails that I get the most compliments for my sound when I'm using a Jazz Bass, yet from *my perspective while playing*, a Jazz sounds anemic and a P-Bass is more visceral and... more audible! My Jazzes have all had the series/parallel mod, plus I never shy away from trying different pickup blends when in parallel mode... yet the P-Basses just rattle my chest more and sound "louder." (Always with reasonable volume and usually with flat, or nearly flat, EQ settings on amps.)
To make things more complicated, I've often preferred the sound of Jazz Basses when I hear *other* people play them. But when I play them... again, they sound and "feel" weak and bland compared to a P-Bass.
Last night, I played at an open mic, and a couple of people told me again that my Jazz sounded great... even though I felt like I was working overtime to get any balls out of it.
I remember reading Will Lee's observation that Jazz Basses just seem to cut through a mix better. Maybe they cut through to everyone in the room... except *me*?
Anyone else want to comment on this form of psychoacoustic derangement? :confused:
Click to expand...

Same problem. I've owned a couple of P-Bass's. I can't get them to do anything but honk.

I'm stringing them with good flats and useing top shelve amplification.

I've tried MIM and MIA and CIJ. Haven't had the opportunity to try a custom shop or playing with different pickups.

But I fell ass backwards into a MIA Jazz Bass about 4 years ago and have been in love ever since.

CS60 pickups and a Jazz neck must be my thing.
 
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#10
Kmrumedy said:
...Next gig bring both basses and ask friend or sound man to record your set so you can hear what the audience hears...
Click to expand...

This is the best piece of advice. I own a small Zoom recorder for this reason. You may be surprised at what you hear, when you hear what others are hearing. For what it's worth, I always find that my J style basses sound weak on the stage, but when I hear a recording from the crowd, they are very present. Not as present as a MFD or P style bass, but still present. It's just a different kind of present.

Taping myself live, always, has been the single best thing I have done in order to grow as a bassist.

John
 
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#11
@dougjwray I've lately been going thru something similar. Working with a new originals band recently and to me 90% of their stuff sounds (to me at least) custom ordered for a P bass. The other 10% I incorporate slap on, so I'm more drawn to using my active Jazz. The last practice we had, I left the P at home and just brought the Jazz. The other members of the band all asked why don't I just use the Jazz all the time? They all think it worked better for what we're doing.

I love both basses, but the Jazz just a little more. But the P sounds so good (at least to me) for deep pocket finger funk style grooves.

I have a theory... with the P, I tend to roll off the treble a lot. I suspect that from across a room it may just sound muddy. I'm using a MarkBass rig, so it's a somewhat "true" sound in that there's no baked in flavors (ok... as far as I'm concerned I don't hear any). With the active Jazz, I'm more scooped with the EQ with the mids rolled off and the low and high pushed up a little. So maybe the Jazz is a little more trebly sounding and cutting through better than how I'm using the P bass.
 
#12
From what I've experienced, if it's a cover band bar gig ...... no one cares what bass you're using or what strings, effects, rig, etc ...... they just want to hear songs they know and love. We as musicians take tremendous pride in our sound / tone / mix but at cover song, bar gigs ..... people generally just want to have a good time.
 
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#14
P basses can be felt more, but Jazz basses can be heard more clearly imo.

I think Ps sound good but every time ive seen a live act and the bassist is using a Jazz, you can just hear those notes dancing around.
 
#17
dougjwray said:
I know this type of thing has been discussed before, but it always interests and puzzles me.
I own several P-Basses and Jazz Basses, of different wood combinations and strung with flats vs. rounds, etc., and it almost never fails that I get the most compliments for my sound when I'm using a Jazz Bass, yet from *my perspective while playing*, a Jazz sounds anemic and a P-Bass is more visceral and... more audible! My Jazzes have all had the series/parallel mod, plus I never shy away from trying different pickup blends when in parallel mode... yet the P-Basses just rattle my chest more and sound "louder." (Always with reasonable volume and usually with flat, or nearly flat, EQ settings on amps.)
To make things more complicated, I've often preferred the sound of Jazz Basses when I hear *other* people play them. But when I play them... again, they sound and "feel" weak and bland compared to a P-Bass.
Last night, I played at an open mic, and a couple of people told me again that my Jazz sounded great... even though I felt like I was working overtime to get any balls out of it.
I remember reading Will Lee's observation that Jazz Basses just seem to cut through a mix better. Maybe they cut through to everyone in the room... except *me*?
Anyone else want to comment on this form of psychoacoustic derangement? :confused:
Click to expand...

Could be you are too loud when playing the P and just right with the J. ?
 
#19
just do both. (but the p will usually do better in a live mix):D
upload_2017-9-9_0-30-27.png
 
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#20
dougjwray said:
Good point, and that make perfect sense. I'm afraid I'd need to be standing in the audience, though.
Click to expand...
The idea of recording is a good one. Possibly even better, do you have a bass player friend (of course you do, we stick together!) who would come play both basses at your settings while you're out front? This will give you a better idea of what the band sounds like with your equipment working. Or get/borrow a wireless set up and wander out in the crowd. The crowd loves it and you can tell exactly what is coming off the stage.

Let's face it, the frequencies we play are hard to hear close up. Especially on small stages where you're practically sitting on top of your rig. Please let us know how it comes out and what you did to find the solution.
 
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