Preference For Sealed Cabs? Why?

[CL400Peavey]

Some engineers (I've known one) look at "tube warmth" as a design flaw.

I get the argument that a flat speaker should be chosen to reproduce the tonal coloration(s) you go for using your bass and amp. But it makes just as much sense to add the speaker to the tone equation. As the cliché goes, "if it works, it works".

Except that is rarely the argument. I am not look at a fEARful for its reproduction. I use it because it does not inherantly limit my signal chain. IMHO the cab is the most important part of shaping your sound.

I am using it for its production, or the "coloration" it has in reference to other bass cabs.

IMHO playing through, say a Ampeg SVT 810e, is like coloring with a green crayon. It is a nice green, most think it is the best. But you are not going to color a red line with it.

IMHO IME YMMV

 

[Mr. Foxen]

I regard the cab as the main limiting factor. The main colour should be the stuff you can actually control, like the instrument, and the amp, with all the controlly knobs on.

 

[Fuzzbass]

Except that is rarely the argument. I am not look at a fEARful for its reproduction. I use it because it does not inherantly limit my signal chain. IMHO the cab is the most important part of shaping your sound.

IMHO playing through, say a Ampeg SVT 810e, is like coloring with a green crayon. It is a nice green, most think it is the best. But you are not going to color a red line with it.

IMHO IME YMMV

You're essentially making that same argument, with "does not inherantly limit my signal chain" substituted for "flat". I agree with the clarification (completely flat doesn't exist), but it misses the point.

 

[CL400Peavey]

You're essentially making that same argument, with "does not inherantly limit my signal chain" substituted for "flat". I agree with the clarification (completely flat doesn't exist), but it misses the point.

I take issue with people draw the line between the "art of creation and production, and the science of reproduction." Like using something they consider "reproduction" is less meaningful.

Maybe I was reading in to it too much.

 

[Fuzzbass]

I take issue with people draw the line between the "art of creation and production, and the science of reproduction." Like using something they consider "reproduction" is less meaningful.

Maybe I was reading in to it too much.

Cabs cover a wide spectrum: highly colored (creation/production), moderately colored, mostly uncolored (reproduction). We all like what we like, I can't fathom why anyone would disrespect the options he doesn't happen to like.

It's fair to say that the flatter cabs require a higher degree of techical expertise to design, those designs are worthy of respect. It's also true that some highly technical people design cabs that are deliberately colored in a specific way (Ampeg sound, SWR sound, etc) because people like it: perhaps this was the "art" that David Jayne was speaking of. Those designs are worthy of respect too.

Of course there's always cheap poorly designed crap out there, but that's not part of the discussion.

 

[Fuzzbass]

Kind of a learning to read issue. The data will have limited meaning to someone who can't read them to the extent it forms the appropriate image in their mind. That doesn't invalidate the data. Loads of people can't read music, doesn't mean written music isn't musical.

On the flip side, great music can be created by people who can't read/write music. Their lack of formal training in and of itself does not invalidate their art.

 

[dukeorock]

On the flip side, great music can be created by people who can't read/write music. Their lack of formal training in and of itself does not invalidate their art.

I sure hope so

 

[Mr. Foxen]

On the flip side, great music can be created by people who can't read/write music. Their lack of formal training in and of itself does not invalidate their art.

Writing notation and writing music are different things. Figuring how something will sound from reading the data is like playing a piece of music from the sheet. If someone can't play it because they can't read the music, it doesn't mean the music is bad, it means the player can't read it.

 

[CL400Peavey]

Cabs cover a wide spectrum: highly colored (creation/production), moderately colored, mostly uncolored (reproduction). We all like what we like, I can't fathom why anyone would disrespect the options he doesn't happen to like.

It's fair to say that the flatter cabs require a higher degree of techical expertise to design, those designs are worthy of respect. It's also true that some highly technical people design cabs that are deliberately colored in a specific way (Ampeg sound, SWR sound, etc) because people like it: perhaps this was the "art" that David Jayne was speaking of. Those designs are worthy of respect too.

Of course there's always cheap poorly designed crap out there, but that's not part of the discussion.

Regardless of the cab, it is all production.

 

[divetone]

With all the advances and innovations in ported speaker design and marketing there sure seems to be an abundance of Ampeg SVT 8x10's on stages everywhere.

 

[CL400Peavey]

With all the advances and innovations in ported speaker design and marketing there sure seems to be an abundance of Ampeg SVT 8x10's on stages everywhere.

Thats just because no one cares to move them off the stage.

 

[will33]

No, ports are 100% science. Completely predictable and computer designable. No art about it. This is true of everything in speaker design.

What we like to hear is subjective art, however.

Yup.

The art comes in using the science to create things people enjoy the sound and behaviour of.

Oftentimes anything but "flat". Oftentimes also limited in bandwidth, and often has to do with their non-linear behaviour, ie: pushing them too hard and enjoying some "musical distortion".

Those sort of things might be considered far from "correct" usage or behaviour, but they sound good.

 

[Mr. Foxen]

With all the advances and innovations in ported speaker design and marketing there sure seems to be an abundance of Ampeg SVT 8x10's on stages everywhere.

Big enough to make people think they are really low endy. Not actually low endy enough to interfere with everything on stage and the PA that's made out of ported cab designs. Plus there has been no advance in marketing that can beat the give loads of gear to people that will ensure it gets seen being used method.

 

[JimmyM]

Pick none...LOL Mark!

 

[will33]

With all the advances and innovations in ported speaker design and marketing there sure seems to be an abundance of Ampeg SVT 8x10's on stages everywhere.

When they were introduced there wasn't a whole lot of bass gear that could compete with the high volume guitar stacks of the day. Maybe folded horns or Sunn 15's.

Add to that flooding the market to the point it might be all you could find in middle-of-nowhere places and there you have it.

Of course, being big, loud, and sounding good doesn't hurt either.

The only other bass cab with as much or more market penetration/commonality, might well be the Peavey 215.

 

[dukeorock]

I sure have owned my fair share of fridges. Don't have a single one anymore. Yeah, they weigh a ton and are more than most of us 'need' on a typical gig, but for many, it's the sound they're after.

Now the trend is the exact opposite. Many players want the smallest, lightest cab they can get their hands on. While I don't want to haul around more than I have to, I won't play a smaller/ lighter cab if it doesn't give me what I'm looking for sonically. That becomes the problem for many lovers of sealed cabs. Tough to make em small and light and still sound great, which led me to my little experiment in the first place. Our prototype cab weighs about 45lbs, handles and honest 500 watts at 8 ohms and is roughly -3db at 60hz. That's a compromise I can live with

 

[Luke the Fluke]

I sure have owned my fair share of fridges. Don't have a single one anymore. Yeah, they weigh a ton and are more than most of us 'need' on a typical gig, but for many, it's the sound they're after.

Now the trend is the exact opposite. Many players want the smallest, lightest cab they can get their hands on. While I don't want haul around more than I have to, I won't play a smaller/ lighter cab if it doesn't give me what I'm looking for sonically. That becomes the problem for many lovers of sealed cabs. Tough to make em small and light and still sound great, which led me to my little experiment in the first place. Our little prototype cab weighs about 45lbs, handles and honest 500 watts at 8 ohms and is roughly -3db at 60hz. That's a compromise I can live with

sounds good. I'ld like to hear something like that

 

[dukeorock]

sounds good. I'ld like to hear something like that

Maybe at some point it'll happen! The first attempt at a prototype was even lighter, but even with lots of bracing, it vibrated too much at higher volume. Another serious consideration with sealed cabs

 

[R Baer]

With all the advances and innovations in ported speaker design and marketing there sure seems to be an abundance of Ampeg SVT 8x10's on stages everywhere.

Very true. I still see the fridge on pro stages more than anything. Why? Because they sound pretty damn killer with a SVT tube head sitting on top of them. Hey, I'm into small, lightweight gear as much as anyone, but I'll admit that for certain styles of music, this rig is pretty tough to beat.

 

[dukeorock]

Very true. I still see the fridge on pro stages more than anything. Why? Because they sound pretty damn killer with a SVT tube head sitting on top of them. Hey, I'm into small, lightweight gear as much as anyone, but I'll admit that for certain styles of music, this rig is pretty tough to beat.

It's THE classic rig for many, no denying it. Many companies have figured out how to make great sounding amps and cabs at a fraction of the weight, but is it 'better?' 'Close enough?' Many would say yes. Others are just no longer willing to schlep such a rig around town. In Nashville, most clubs have house rigs that many players are content to use. I'm not one of them So I have to find my own compromises. Most of my local gigs are a very quick in and out, no soundcheck. I'm pretty fussy about my upright tone, so my rig is probably more involved than most. My rack weighs about 40lbs, but everything is wired up, so it's a quick set up and tear down-

*Michael Pope MPP2
dbx 31 band graphic eq (bypassed unless the room is tricky)
Class D power amp

My proto cab weighs about 45lbs and I'm running 1k watts at 8 ohms.

Not the tiniest rig by a mile, but it's pretty huge performance for my doubling gigs.