Preference For Sealed Cabs? Why?

[dukeorock]

What drivers are in your experiment cab?

It's an 18" woofer with two small mid drivers at the moment. I'll mess around with some other things when time and money permits, but I'm very pleased with this cab for what it is so far

 

[agedhorse]

Note that the 1600 watt rating is not purely thermal as there is a crest factor greater than a sine wave built in, and it's only a 2 hour survival test. Most applications require a longer survival time for customer satisfaction.

 

[Handyman]

Note that the 1600 watt rating is not purely thermal as there is a crest factor greater than a sine wave built in, and it's only a 2 hour survival test. Most applications require a longer survival time for customer satisfaction.

That's sad. Who's going to be able to hear me if I can't put 1600 watts RMS into my subwoofer?

 

[Handyman]

On a more serious note, I am curious how the 1600W power rating for a 2 hour survival test compares to something more like a rating for continuous usage, and how this compares to how Eminence specs their thermal power limits.

 

[alexclaber]

Eminence use EIA 426A whilst Faital use the AES standard.

"AES uses pink noise filtered with a 12dB/octave Butterworth filter, both high and low, 1 decade apart. (A decade is a 10:1 frequency ratio, for example 200 Hz to 2 kHz). The decade used will be specific to the device being tested. It is a 2-hour test with a crest factor of 6dB. (This means there will be peaks in the signal up to 4 times the continuous signal level). EIA 426A uses white noise filtered with a 6dB/octave high pass filter at 40 Hz, and a 6dB/octave low pass filter at 318 Hz. This is an 8-hour test with a 6dB crest factor."

Personally I'd be very surprised if a driver's components aren't all up to full temperature after two hours of a max power test, at which point the thermal challenges faced by the voice coil are just as tough as after six, seven or eight hours. With a very low power driver with a huge magnet and frame (so something like a tiny voice coil full-range Lowther or similar) then it could take even longer to get up to temperature but if your driver is rated at 1000W then it won't take long to get everything hot! Power testing our drivers it isn't long at all before the magnet is too hot to touch and the air blasting out of the motor vent is at hot air paint stripper gun temperature.

 

[agedhorse]

Adhesive degradation, especially the breakdown of epoxies, takes place over time. Generally, surviving a 2 hour test versus a more common (or real world realistic) 200 hour test results in a power handling difference of between 20 and 40% depending on other factors.

This is a good example of why any single number representing power handling is inherently inaccurate.

 

[dukeorock]

Adhesive degradation, especially the breakdown of epoxies, takes place over time. Generally, surviving a 2 hour test versus a more common (or real world realistic) 200 hour test results in a power handling difference of between 20 and 40% depending on other factors.

This is a good example of why any single number representing power handling is inherently inaccurate.

Yet the consumer demands 'specs,' even if most are complete fiction

 

[JimmyM]

I'm not down with the fiction, but I do think power handling quotes using wattage, as long as they're based somewhat in reality, can be useful. That reality thing seems to be a sticking point, though

 

[agedhorse]

That reality thing seems to be a sticking point, though

Indeed it is in many cases.

 

[Luke the Fluke]

Adhesive degradation, especially the breakdown of epoxies, takes place over time. Generally, surviving a 2 hour test versus a more common (or real world realistic) 200 hour test results in a power handling difference of between 20 and 40% depending on other factors.

This is a good example of why any single number representing power handling is inherently inaccurate.

theres a thread somewhere where someone's stressing over a 350w or 300w speaker in a cab... I lost track of the amount of times Bill Fitzmaurice (I think it was him) has to point out that the 350w thermal limit is less important than the 150w excursion limit on that design cab....

 

[agedhorse]

Excursion limit is another parameter entirely. This driver has a double spider which helps with excursion and improves resistance to mechanical damage. When you factor this into a power handling with a crest factor of 6dB, it makes the driver functionally similar to an 800 watt "RMS" or continuous or thermally rated driver.

It's a very good driver, I just wanted to point out that the number presented had a somewhat unique set of fine print that goes along with it.

 

[Laklandfan]

You've explained why my favorite cab bar none is the Bergantino NV610. I also love the NV412, but the tens seem a smidge brighter and have more of the retro SVT 8x10 vibe.

I love the NV610 even though I'm a fingerstyle player who uses it with detuned 5-string bass for modern/classic hard rock and metal. As you noted, the lack of tweeter makes overdrive/distortion sound so much smoother: I can get nice bright aggressive zing with minimal hiss/buzz. Regardless, I prefer it for clean or dirty tones, any string type, any technique (slap, pickstyle, fingerstyle), any musical genre.




I'm an older bassist who loved the vintage SVT rig I once owned, but one of the biggest reasons I love my sealed 6x10 these days is because it works so beautifully live: specifically, the tight low end. Andy from Acme once asked here on TB, "why would anyone (especially five stringers) NOT want to hear those lowest frequencies from their instrument"? With proper respect I replied that those lowest freqs can cause problems at the gig. It's one thing if you're lucky enough to play in quality studios and concert halls, but I'm just a weekend warrior who mostly plays in bars. In 40 years I've never once have had a sound tech ask me for MORE low frequencies. I've had a couple of techs (very good ones, BTW) tell me to trim my onstage lows because they were covered by FOH: the point was so that I could have higher stage volume.

Even in a situation where my rig is filling the room, I prefer the definition of the sealed cab: the lowest lows can still muddy things up.

There are still people who believe that the lowest notes disappear if the fundamental is weak or nonexistent. Simply not true: I can hear low Bb just fine through my NV610. Now maybe I can't FEEL it as well as I would through a modern cab that goes down to 30Hz, but as explained, that's a "be careful what you ask for" situation.

Again, I am NOT dissing Acme and other cabs that go low. Many bassists love 'em and can make 'em work. I simply prefer the tone and feel of a good sealed cab, and at the gig it works as well or better than any of the ported cabs I've owned or tried.

I've been toying with the idea of building a couple of sealed 15 cabs the past few months. This thread may make it actually happen.

It seems like Berg NV cabs get mentioned often when discussing sealed cabs. What are your thoughts on the NV115? I'm not sure if I'm ready to commit to the big boy 412 or 215.

 

[Laklandfan]

I just got an F-deck for my Jule rig so I'm going to try that. My rig puts out a lot of bottom, too much for my tastes. I'm wondering if I haven't done a good job matching my head to my cab. That's why I was considering going back to sealed cab, or changing out my preamp. The gear-go-round is expensive.

 

[dukeorock]

The fDeck should be a huge help!

 

[JGR]

I just got an F-deck for my Jule rig so I'm going to try that. My rig puts out a lot of bottom, too much for my tastes. I'm wondering if I haven't done a good job matching my head to my cab. That's why I was considering going back to sealed cab, or changing out my preamp. The gear-go-round is expensive.

I'm a firm believer that one piece of gear shouldn't have to "fix" another's shortcomings, so I'd figure out what the offending piece is and address that rather than adding more to the signal chain. It all gets very easy once you get all the pieces working in harmony.

 

[dukeorock]

I just got an F-deck for my Jule rig so I'm going to try that. My rig puts out a lot of bottom, too much for my tastes. I'm wondering if I haven't done a good job matching my head to my cab. That's why I was considering going back to sealed cab, or changing out my preamp. The gear-go-round is expensive.

Lots of good reports on the Jule pre, so I'd try to make that work. I'd be curious to try one, but I'm so happy with my Reiner 6SL7 pre that I don't really feel the need to look elsewhere., except maybe for the Reiner Studio 1200

There's also plenty of cabs that have very polite lows, but to me that isn't the beauty of a good sealed design. It's the way the lows present themselves and the great note definition at high SPL that has me playing around with sealed designs

 

[Laklandfan]

Lots of good reports on the Jule pre, so I'd try to make that work. I'd be curious to try one, but I'm so happy with my Reiner 6SL7 pre that I don't really feel the need to look elsewhere., except maybe for the Reiner Studio 1200

There's also plenty of cabs that have very polite lows, but to me that isn't the beauty of a good sealed design. It's the way the lows present themselves and the great note definition at high SPL that has me playing around with sealed designs

The good news is in the room I tried it, the hpf really helped out. The bottom was much tighter, but still there. Turning the bass knob down on the jule made the whole sound to weak, but the f deck allowed me to cut the boom but without robbing the tone. The rig sounds quite good, now.

 

[dukeorock]

The good news is in the room I tried it, the hpf really helped out. The bottom was much tighter, but still there. Turning the bass knob down on the jule made the whole sound to weak, but the f deck allowed me to cut the boom but without robbing the tone. The rig sounds quite good, now.

I think the fDeck is a very useful tool, especially for the price. Glad it worked out for you!

 

[Laklandfan]

Yep I know some rooms are just bad for bass. I thought that might be the issue. I also made sure the cab was away from the wall, too.

 

[BigEarl]

I'm not a technical expert on cab design. But I always wondered about the sealed cab thing and how much of chasing this particular sound is related to older bassists in particular whose "sound in the head" comes from the recorded and produced record sound of the 1960s and 1970s? Seems like a lot of "how do I get this tone" questions relate more to matters of tracking techniques, EQ, compression, mastering, and possibly end production format than they do to use of a particular cab technology in a live music setting.

Revisiting earlier threads on "sealed vs ported" I found this from Ukiah Bass, which totally right on. When I first started playing bass 40 years ago, I spent all my time tying to cop the sounds I heard on albums with my POS amps. But as I've grown older, and hopefully wiser, I realized that what I was listening to was heavily studio processed in ways that I would never be able to accurately reproduce live. Just the mastering technique of banded compression would mean I would NEVER sound like that.

Ultimately I settled on the phrase "how does my sound make me feel?" When I am in front of a SVT refrigerator, I feel the power on my backside, which in turn makes me play with more oomph mentally, when I play through an Epifani 410 I feel it too. One is sealed, one is ported, but the feeling is the same. So now I don't worry about the "sealed vs ported" issue anymore. If my live sound makes me feel like I do when I hear Chris Squire or Nick Jameson or Duck Dunn, it don't matter what I'm using in the chain: bass, effects, amp or especially cabs!

my $.02