Preference For Sealed Cabs? Why?

[dukeorock]

It is a shame that some of the smartest cab designers can be impatient and even condescending, while a few others just try to baffle folks with meaningless tech jargon. Duke is a major exception. Great designer, thinker and human. The same can be said of Jonathan Reiner(JGR). People like them make it all worthwhile for me

 

[kringle77]

Duke has more patients than most. Almost too humble.

 

[alexclaber]

Duke has more patients than most.

There's definitely a good joke in that typo!

 

[kringle77]

Yup!

 

[kraigo]

I sure have owned my fair share of fridges. Don't have a single one anymore. Yeah, they weigh a ton and are more than most of us 'need' on a typical gig, but for many, it's the sound they're after.

Now the trend is the exact opposite. Many players want the smallest, lightest cab they can get their hands on. While I don't want to haul around more than I have to, I won't play a smaller/ lighter cab if it doesn't give me what I'm looking for sonically. That becomes the problem for many lovers of sealed cabs. Tough to make em small and light and still sound great, which led me to my little experiment in the first place. Our prototype cab weighs about 45lbs, handles and honest 500 watts at 8 ohms and is roughly -3db at 60hz. That's a compromise I can live with

Tell me more of this cab...

 

[dukeorock]

Tell me more of this cab...

What would you like to know? You can also PM me if you like

 

[kraigo]

Actually, Bill left because he could be a little sarcastic and dismissive and was asked to tone it down. So he bolted.

I loved it when Bill was sarcastic and dismissive, even when he was being sarcastic and dismissive to me. He gave me a lot of insight that it would have taken me a lot longer to learn without him.

 

[kraigo]

I started into this thread because I was curious about the FaitalPro 10FE200. I have one that I'm going to put into a sealed cab as a proof of concept and as a studio cab.

Good information guys. Thanks!

 

[agedhorse]

Run the calculations and see how it looks.

 

[JimmyM]

I loved it when Bill was sarcastic and dismissive, even when he was being sarcastic and dismissive to me. He gave me a lot of insight that it would have taken me a lot longer to learn without him.

I have to admit I was charmed by him as well. But he did grossly overuse the Star Trek Double Facepalm meme

 

[retslock]

This isn't a trick question or meant to start any fires at all. Hopefully, just a fun conversation about different preferences.

There are a lot of different ideas about how to achieve the best tone and I for one am thrilled we don't all sound the same

I always believed (perhaps mistakenly) that ports were included in a design because the internal dimensions of the box were not optimum to the speakers capability. They are an attempt to provide what the box’s measurements can’t, usually with the help of the floor. Bass frequencies need a lot of room to develop properly (checked out any pipe organs lately?) and most cabinets can’t provide it. I have seen some very big old movie theatre cabinets though.

 

[agedhorse]

I always believed (perhaps mistakenly) that ports were included in a design because the internal dimensions of the box were not optimum to the speakers capability. They are an attempt to provide what the box’s measurements can’t, usually with the help of the floor. Bass frequencies need a lot of room to develop properly (checked out any pipe organs lately?) and most cabinets can’t provide it. I have seen some very big old movie theatre cabinets though.

It's just 2 different approaches to designing a speaker cabinet. The principles below about 200Hz are different than for a sealed cabinet as are the equations defining performance.

Low notes of a pipe organ use long pipes because they act more as resonators excited by air passing through an orifice like a whistle. The resonant frequency is determined (primarily) by the length of the pipe.

In a ported speaker, there are resonances too, but what's different is how the ports are used. They factor directly into the damped mass-spring system that a speaker is modeled from, and the air mass or air load in the port affects the operation of the mass-spring system directly.

 

[dukeorock]

Bass frequencies need a lot of room to develop properly

Earbuds

 

[seamonkey]

I always believed (perhaps mistakenly) that ports were included in a design because the internal dimensions of the box were not optimum to the speakers capability. They are an attempt to provide what the box’s measurements can’t, usually with the help of the floor. Bass frequencies need a lot of room to develop properly (checked out any pipe organs lately?) and most cabinets can’t provide it. I have seen some very big old movie theatre cabinets though.

Pipe organs have both open and closed pipes.

If you look up pipe organs you'll find they are full of audio illusions:

Real 64' Stops:


The largest pipe of a 64' stop is more than 20 meters (22 yards) long and produces a frequency of about 8 Hz! Many large organs do have a 64' stop on the console and in their stoplists but except for the organs mentioned below all of them are acoustic fakes, that is they are a combination of an existing 32' plus a Fifth extension 21 1/3' (that together produce a differential tone giving a slight 64' impression.​

This is true of lows for bass guitar also. There are plenty of times you don't need the fundamental to sound low. Not many cabs actually produce the fundamental of a bass. But if you're paying for actually fundamental response then they shouldn't fib about it. Unfortunately there are many that claim they do when they don't.

 

[Rnr..........4]

Great thread. Been reading through it. Seems most prefer sealed.

What would you all think of the Orange OBC4x10 ported cab? I have that right now but considering returning it as I do like the concept of a tighter, punchier sound with a sealed cab. My issue, in my budget range, is that most of the other cabs are made in China.

Sure you all have good success with those sorts of cabs but I am after something US or UK/EU made.

 

[dkelley]

Nearly all modern bass cabs I've used are ported, as a properly designed ported cab can be smaller and more efficient. It is a design challenge, of course, but good loudspeaker design engineers make amazing ported bass cabs all the time. Any issues with ported cabs (unloading at very low frequencies) aren't normally real world issues, since you just use a HPF on it to filter that out. Many times you have a HPF in your signal chain without even realizing it.

Designing a ported cab without proper math and measurements of the driver parameters isn't terribly successful, although CAN work. But doing it properly can result in superior results to sealed cabs.

I'm actually trying to think of an example of a sealed bass cab I still own. Ok, I have one.... a 1980s peavey bass combo amp. That's the last sealed bass cab I've owned. Many cabs have hidden ports, like fender combo amps with the slotted port at the very bottom.... you can't even tell at first glance that it is ported. I'm ASSuming that Fender designed those carefully and properly.... although it is only just an assumption.

 

[deff]

Nearly all modern bass cabs I've used are ported, as a properly designed ported cab can be smaller and more efficient. It is a design challenge, of course, but good loudspeaker design engineers make amazing ported bass cabs all the time. Any issues with ported cabs (unloading at very low frequencies) aren't normally real world issues, since you just use a HPF on it to filter that out. Many times you have a HPF in your signal chain without even realizing it.

Designing a ported cab without proper math and measurements of the driver parameters isn't terribly successful, although CAN work. But doing it properly can result in superior results to sealed cabs.

I'm actually trying to think of an example of a sealed bass cab I still own. Ok, I have one.... a 1980s peavey bass combo amp. That's the last sealed bass cab I've owned. Many cabs have hidden ports, like fender combo amps with the slotted port at the very bottom.... you can't even tell at first glance that it is ported. I'm ASSuming that Fender designed those carefully and properly.... although it is only just an assumption.

No hidden ports.

 

[dkelley]

View attachment 4748325
No hidden ports.

I wasn't saying sealed bass cabs don't exist. I was saying that I, personally, don't play through them or use them, I don't encounter them, and no I don't use fancy high end cabs like that excellent example of yours. I have used that level of cab, and I have owned the same brand as in your photo, but those are the outliers for me, not the ones I normally end up keeping. Not because of sealed or ported choice... for my own reasons (size and tone and weight are my typical reasons).

I am also saying that there are not any actual performance downfalls in realistic use of a ported cab, or a sealed cab, and there can be performance perks for either design.... and basically... EITHER design works great, ported or not, if done well.

But when I walk into a music store, nearly all of the bass cabs I encounter are ported. NOT all, probably, but nearly all, and all that I ever find myself interested in buying are ported. I don't look for ported... I look for certain specs and performance and sound, and that always seems to result in ported cabs for me.

I'm not pro ported - but I personally find it unlikely that most bassists play through sealed bass cabs. Maybe in this thread? dunno. But I just can't recall the last sealed cab I played through in a serious cab... so from my experience, sealed are less common, without any bias or explanation of my own.

It could be because I prefer smaller cabs.

 

[deff]

I wasn't saying sealed bass cabs don't exist. I was saying that I, personally, don't play through them or use them, I don't encounter them, and no I don't use fancy high end cabs like that excellent example of yours. I have used that level of cab, and I have owned the same brand as in your photo, but those are the outliers for me, not the ones I normally end up keeping. Not because of sealed or ported choice... for my own reasons (size and tone and weight are my typical reasons).

I am also saying that there are not any actual performance downfalls in realistic use of a ported cab, or a sealed cab, and there can be performance perks for either design.... and basically... EITHER design works great, ported or not, if done well.

But when I walk into a music store, nearly all of the bass cabs I encounter are ported. NOT all, probably, but nearly all, and all that I ever find myself interested in buying are ported. I don't look for ported... I look for certain specs and performance and sound, and that always seems to result in ported cabs for me.

I'm not pro ported - but I personally find it unlikely that most bassists play through sealed bass cabs. Maybe in this thread? dunno. But I just can't recall the last sealed cab I played through in a serious cab... so from my experience, sealed are less common, without any bias or explanation of my own.

It could be because I prefer smaller cabs.

100% I mean realistically my cab doesn't actually exist anymore. I know there are still examples of some sealed cabs out there but they are by far in the minority. I only have a preference for the cab that makes my bass sound good and loud enough. I was just fortunate enough to get this one at something of a deal.

Plus if I bought two GK 212 neo cabs, ported and lightweight it would have hit my wallet a lot harder. GK certainly isn't a boutique builder. 1 Subway 212 cab was significantly more than I payed. So while fancy, in a way it was actually a bargain.

 

[chadds]

The correct question is sealed or tort? Or ported or tort? C'mon let's get with our priorities.