Bill left the forum for that exact reason, or so I'm told. He was always telling people the reality of these things and they never believed him.
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Preference For Sealed Cabs? Why?
- Thread starter dukeorock
- Start date
Bill left the forum for that exact reason, or so I'm told. He was always telling people the reality of these things and they never believed him.
- Mar 8, 2011
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- Authorized greenboy designs builder/Owner of BNA Audio
I think a lot of people listened to what Bill had to say and deeply regret that he no longer contributes good information here. I know I learned a lot from reading his posts
Online forums like this have a lot of good people who exchange good information and a minority group who just seem to love fighting about...anything. I think they just wore Bill out. I suppose the same could be said of greenboy, who doesn't come around here anymore.
- Mar 8, 2011
- 12,232
- 51,187
- Disclosures
- Authorized greenboy designs builder/Owner of BNA Audio
I think a lot of people listened to what Bill had to say and deeply regret that he no longer contributes good information here. I know I learned a lot from reading his posts
Online forums like this have a lot of good people who exchange good information and a minority group who just seem to love fighting about...anything. I think they just wore Bill out. I suppose the same could be said of greenboy, who doesn't come around here anymore.
- Mar 8, 2011
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- Authorized greenboy designs builder/Owner of BNA Audio
I totally agree that if you're getting the live tone you hear in your head, it doesn't matter how you got there!
For me, playing around with sealed cabs lately has nothing to do with nostalgia, though. I've been playing a very long time as a working pro musician and honestly have almost no vintage bass gear left. Especially when it comes to cabs. The best new designs are much better in my opinion. As much as I loved the old 15" based cabs with nice JBLs and EVs, I got a little tired of getting blown drivers fixed
When I built my little experimental sealed cab, my target goals were for something that would be good for loud upright bass. On most ported cabs, as you turn up louder, you begin to lose note definition and punch- two things I desperately do not want to lose! Back in the day, sealed cabs were always huge and weighed a ton, but some of the better modern speakers and design techniques are allowing for some improvements there. My DIY sealed cab weighs 50lbs, has an 18" woofer and two small mid drivers and I often run 1,000 watts into 8ohms from my power amp. I've played about 30 or so gigs with this cab and am totally loving it so far. My band mates prefer it on my upright gigs because they feel they can hear my individual notes better and it's not so boomy sounding. My band mates in my one all electric bass gig like how punchy and clear my electric sound is now. After a few years of making and selling bass cabs it's been really fun to step away and just tinker with something for my own pleasure
Actually, Bill left because he could be a little sarcastic and dismissive and was asked to tone it down. So he bolted.
- Mar 8, 2011
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- Authorized greenboy designs builder/Owner of BNA Audio
That's how I remember it. Shame, because he often had some amazing (if a little snarky) advice
- Mar 8, 2011
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- Authorized greenboy designs builder/Owner of BNA Audio
I haven't seriously investigated much beyond a couple fun experiments for the sealed 18" with two mid drivers I'm currently playing. I have everything set to goof around with a sealed 218 with 4 mid drivers though...will be building one of those at some point just because
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I think a lot of people listened to what Bill had to say and deeply regret that he no longer contributes good information here. I know I learned a lot from reading his posts
Online forums like this have a lot of good people who exchange good information and a minority group who just seem to love fighting about...anything. I think they just wore Bill out. I suppose the same could be said of greenboy, who doesn't come around here anymore.
I think anyone who has advanced expertise in any particular field can empathize with the frustration that Bill probably felt. Sometimes you explain in so many ways how something works or why it is, and people will continue to argue with you using irrational rebuttals.
Honestly, I was always surprised that he stuck around as long as he did and was able to exercise his special brand of gruff patience without going postal on someone who just wouldn't let go of their dogma and listen. There were even a few things that I disagreed with Bill on (e.g., speaker size not being related to sound - every 15" speaker I've played through has an inherent tonal characteristic that I don't hear in 10" and 12" speakers), but he was a valuable asset to the forum; I'm still bummed that he left.
For me, playing around with sealed cabs lately has nothing to do with nostalgia, though. I've been playing a very long time as a working pro musician and honestly have almost no vintage bass gear left. Especially when it comes to cabs. The best new designs are much better in my opinion. As much as I loved the old 15" based cabs with nice JBLs and EVs, I got a little tired of getting blown drivers fixed
While there are some great sounding vintage bass amps out there, there are precious few vintage cabs that truly sound great, IMHO. Cabinet design has just jumped leaps and bounds in the past 25 years. Size not withstanding, there's a reason why sound engineers aren't scouring ebay for 35 year old scoops for their systems. Even the modern cabs that are built with an old school vibe in mind - like the Berg NV and Aggie DB series - do vintage better than actual vintage cabs. They cop the warmth and punch of older cabs, but they don't have the wet sock over the speaker sound that many vintage cabs seem to have. Plus, as you alluded to, the new designs are louder and can handle more power.
- Mar 8, 2011
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The speaker size thing is tough. I tend to agree that you can't generalize every speaker based on its size. I've heard super tubby 15's and some thin, bright ones.
- Nov 24, 2008
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I haven't seriously investigated much beyond a couple fun experiments for the sealed 18" with two mid drivers I'm currently playing. I have everything set to goof around with a sealed 218 with 4 mid drivers though...will be building one of those at some point just because
That sounds like a very interesting format. There are 18's out there today that have very powerful motors and nice response curves and really good parameters that compete with an uber-15 in pretty much every way, except that they're bigger and move more air. And there are some very nice midrange drivers out there as well that are just as happy pairing up with an 18 (or two!) as with a 15.
scotch
It's not rocket science!
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I gotta be honest, in an age of advanced house pa's, in ear monitoring, and stages with balanced front-fill expectations from the audience - I don't want a louder cab with enough power handling to absorb a nuclear blast. I want a cab with great tone and a reasonable volume that the foh engineer can enjoy mic'ing!
I welcome any design that just plain SOUNDS good. I admit I want it a bit less effecient so I can crank a little more grit out of my power tubes, too. It's not even about "being old skool", but recognizing that the role of bass amplification on the stages I play has changed greatly over the last 3 to 4 decades!
I welcome any design that just plain SOUNDS good. I admit I want it a bit less effecient so I can crank a little more grit out of my power tubes, too. It's not even about "being old skool", but recognizing that the role of bass amplification on the stages I play has changed greatly over the last 3 to 4 decades!
- Mar 8, 2011
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- Authorized greenboy designs builder/Owner of BNA Audio
My gigs are a mixed bag. Lots of them have good PA's and put you in the house. In those cases if you play too loud and go super low, you can often create weird problem interactions with the house subs and get a very frustrated FOH engineer. I also have several gigs where the bass is not in the house ever, so I don't think there's a one size fits all solution. Not for me, at least
- Mar 8, 2011
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- Authorized greenboy designs builder/Owner of BNA Audio
Every single cab made has a 'voice.' Anyone who says differently is just trying to sell you something
It's really too bad because, even though those things were true, you have to admitt, he repeated himself so many times to people who can't be bothered to do a basic search that, anyone would get irritated after awhile. He really does have a mountain of knowledge. But, he seems to be a technical guy more than a tone guy. I know that in the process of learning, I must have caused him to say "***" on many occasions. You still have to play nice on public forums though.
at
I agree, and it's sort of a lingering problem here on TB, that, the people who have actual, scientific knowledge and training in the field of bass cab building and design, seem to have an almost prevailing tone of a condescending nature when replying to technical questions by the uninformed, or ill informed. I'm glad those experts are here and freely give of their knowledge, but their " bedside " manner leaves a lot to be desired. Just look at how Duke LeJuenne replies to these questions, and the other resident experts, and you will see a world of difference. And I would dare to say that, if you are going to be a " teacher ", you are going to have to get used to the fact that you are going to have to repeat yourself a lot, and answer the same questions over and over. Comes with the territory, yeah ?
I agree, and it's sort of a lingering problem here on TB, that, the people who have actual, scientific knowledge and training in the field of bass cab building and design, seem to have an almost prevailing tone of a condescending nature when replying to technical questions by the uninformed, or ill informed. I'm glad those experts are here and freely give of their knowledge, but their " bedside " manner leaves a lot to be desired. Just look at how Duke LeJuenne replies to these questions, and the other resident experts, and you will see a world of difference. And I would dare to say that, if you are going to be a " teacher ", you are going to have to get used to the fact that you are going to have to repeat yourself a lot, and answer the same questions over and over. Comes with the territory, yeah ?
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