Preference For Sealed Cabs? Why?

[JimmyM]

Ironically, using the search function and reading a couple old threads is what led me to start this thread in the first place...the 810e remains the 'gold standard' to so many. Berg has a couple of coveted sealed designs for many players. Honestly though, until I heard a couple of JGRs sealed designs, I figured the only successful designs were 610 or 810 cabs, maybe a 412. That made me curious to see what different folks were thinking now

Well, the 810e is still the gold standard to me, but when I got a PF115he a couple years ago, it really wised me up to the idea that it's all about the design of the cab and speaker, because I had never heard a sealed cab go as low as they do. Would have never figured that to be the case, but whoomp, there it is, to borrow a phrase from the kids.

 

[dukeorock]

Would have never figured that to be the case, but whoomp, there it is, to borrow a phrase from the kids.

I don't think they say that anymore, honey

 

[JimmyM]

Who let the dogs out?

 

[dukeorock]

Who let the dogs out?

Well...

 

[smeet]

So... I think I know the answer to this, but... If I plug the whole port on my fEARful 15/6/1, will it magically become a good-sounding sealed cabinet, or will it sound bad, or even damage the speaker?

 

[dukeorock]

So... I think I know the answer to this, but... If I plug the whole port on my fEARful 15/6/1, will it magically become a good-sounding sealed cabinet, or will it sound bad, or even damage the speaker?

It won't damage the speaker unless you do something really dumb, which I doubt you would!

When I first got into Greenboy cabs, I took a 15/6/1 and 15sub on tour and it was just so crazy to adjust from my old cabs, I sealed the sub completely and the 15/6/1 partially until I could get a handle on how to eq it for loud upright. But the Legendary ShackShakers were super loud back then...I guess we still are

 

[AstroSonic]

Would it be accurate to say the use of a HPF like the Fdeck transforms a ported cab into sonic characteristics of a sealed cab? That's how it seems to my ears.

While an HPF does not convert a ported cab into a sealed cab it does largely solve one of the more significant problems with ported cabs: run-away excursion below the tuning frequency. The driver is not loaded below the cab's tuning frequency (actually a relatively narrow band of frequencies located between the two impedance peaks), so excursion increases rapidly.

 

[smeet]

It won't damage the speaker unless you do something really dumb, which I doubt you would!

When I first got into Greenboy cabs, I took a 15/6/1 and 15sub on tour and it was just so crazy to adjust from my old cabs, I sealed the sub completely and the 15/6/1 partially until I could get a handle on how to eq it for loud upright. But the Legendary ShackShakers were super loud back then...I guess we still are

Fascinating, thanks! I've sealed it halfway a few times, and I was thinking about extending the shelf with a removable extension to get the same sound.

So I know you were playing upright, but how would you characterize the change in sound when you completely sealed it? Does it give a more punchy sound with more low mid emphasis?

 

[dukeorock]

So I know you were playing upright, but how would you characterize the change in sound when you completely sealed it? Does it give a more punchy sound with more low mid emphasis?

To be honest, on ShackShakers tours, once the first note starts, I try not to think about the gear and just throw down as much as possible.

If memory serves, I don't really think blocking the ports made the fEARfuls sound like a great sealed cab (if you're a sealed cab kind of person). It did tame the deep lows til I learned how to deal with them, but that's pretty much it. I think the Greenboy stuff is very well designed to be what it is, not to be tweaked to something it isn't. Just like I wouldn't poke a bunch of holes in a great sealed design

 

[Luke the Fluke]

That's a different conversation! For now I was just interested in what sorts of qualities in cabs appeal to folks and why

so you ask us the question... have a perfect AB testing set up.... and aren't telling us what the craic is from your point of view!!!

I had a rig, made by a popular lightweight german maker- and It sounded great- but when playing loud it sounded awful - whatever the room. I eventually took it to pieces, measured everything inside, read loads on how speakers work and plugged my findings into winISD to roughly model my cab - it turned out I don't think the manufacturer had bothered with things like modelling it as.... well I could graphically see why the cab sounded so bad! So I got interested in cabs and how they work, it's interesting and the more I learn the more I come to respect those who actually know what they are doing!

I currently have a ACME b2 - awesome cab, not sure I actually like such a low low end roll off but hey ho - and one of the things i've seen is a UK made combo.... with a sealed 1x12 cab - I've never come across a sealed cab that wasn't a 8x10 so I'm a bit apprehensive to the whole thing. If I wanted to build a decent ported cab I could read lots and have played lots and go find a fearful or simplexx or other similar design... sealed though... never come across them....

which is why your observations from your AB testing would be quite interesting!

 

[CL400Peavey]

so you ask us the question... have a perfect AB testing set up.... and aren't telling us what the craic is from your point of view!!!

I had a rig, made by a popular lightweight german maker- and It sounded great- but when playing loud it sounded awful - whatever the room. I eventually took it to pieces, measured everything inside, read loads on how speakers work and plugged my findings into winISD to roughly model my cab - it turned out I don't think the manufacturer had bothered with things like modelling it as.... well I could graphically see why the cab sounded so bad! So I got interested in cabs and how they work, it's interesting and the more I learn the more I come to respect those who actually know what they are doing!

I currently have a ACME b2 - awesome cab, not sure I actually like such a low low end roll off but hey ho - and one of the things i've seen is a UK made combo.... with a sealed 1x12 cab - I've never come across a sealed cab that wasn't a 8x10 so I'm a bit apprehensive to the whole thing. If I wanted to build a decent ported cab I could read lots and have played lots and go find a fearful or simplexx or other similar design... sealed though... never come across them....

which is why your observations from your AB testing would be quite interesting!

Mark has a number of cabs at his disposal. One could take an educated guess that he was using one of those as comparison. My bet is that he was A/Bing with his touring cab.

 

[Luke the Fluke]

Mark has a number of cabs at his disposal. One could take an educated guess that he was using one of those as comparison.

one could if I'd been around TB longer!

 

[alexclaber]

Blocking the ports on most ported cabs won't make them sound like a well designed sealed cab because the T/S parameters of the woofers mean they need ports to help out in the lows - basically they're overdamped if you put them in a sealed enclosure, so the lows sound thin.

We had great fun with the '69er we made which was basically a sealed 5x10"+10" - awesome tone but relative to its size it couldn't produce the prodigious high SPL lows of our other models. Our solution until recently was to also offer a ported 2x15" so we had two flavours of very high sensitivity and more old school sounding cabs, each with its own specific abilities. However we really liked certain aspects of the '69er's tone which we couldn't get from a ported 2x15" design, so we went on a bit of mission to design a 10" woofer with the tone and sensitivity we wanted but a TON of excursion so it could move lots of air and thus produce big loud lows when you wanted them.

The thing about any sealed cab is that you try to kill everything coming off the back of the woofers, which means you're giving up half your potential low frequency output compared to a design which takes the rear LF output and uses it to augment the front output. This is FREE power - it's what ported cabs, transmission line cabs, and various horn-loaded cabs do. If you're making a cab to work well with tube amps (which by their nature are rarely all that powerful) then FREE POWER is a very good thing, if you can get it without messing up your tone. That takes some lateral thinking...

 

[CL400Peavey]

one could if I'd been around TB longer!

Looking in his profile might narrow things down for you.

 

[ronlitz]

The best cab I ever played was an Ampeg 8x10, which is sealed. The bottom was tight and punchy, and with no high frequency drivers, the top end was smooth and clank-free. The design has a built-in EQ that rolls off the bottom and top, which IMO is exactly what a bass needs. I should mention that I was playing classic and hard rock on a P-bass using a pick. At 168 pounds, I got tired of the schlep and sold it.

 

[Interceptor]

I switch between ported and sealed. The sealed sound is working much better for me on stage. The natural frequency response and compression hit my tone desires with only a little eq with the sealed cabs I'm using. My tone profile is pretty much 1970's Nashville / New Orleans.

The difference I'm hearing is a combination of better transient response, compression artifacts and band pass. Like dukeorock, I've got plenty of eq and studio gear and an experienced set of ears. No way can I get either cabinet to sound exactly like the other with eq, compression or even band shaping. The closest I could get was a mix of eq, high and low pass and multiband compression using my DAW as a preamp. Way to geeky to gig.

 

[dkelley]

I was once talking to a top Hifi speaker designer who said "I don't want to hear any part of my music coming out of a port". I feel the same way. Ported enclosures are a great way to get good bass extension and decent sensitivity in a small box. I just feel that the quality of the bass suffers. To get extension and volume out of a sealed box is possible, but the box will be very large and heavy and if it's going to have decent output--sensitivity will likely be low. I feel that there are other more effective ways to skin that cat.

any HiFi speaker designer who says that is not an engineer, does not understand physics, and should not be designing speakers.

 

[Marial]

I wish Duke would chime in here. Depending on the room I like my TC212 wide open or with the top and bottom ports plugged, or with just the middle port plugged.

Also 'infinite baffle' is my new favorite term.

 

[alexclaber]

Also 'infinite baffle' is my new favorite term.

I sometimes wonder if my more technical posts on here leave readers infinitely baffled! Even if that's not the case, are they left in a state of acoustic suspension?

 

[Mike Arnopol]

any HiFi speaker designer who says that is not an engineer, does not understand physics, and should not be designing speakers.

Well, gee---than someone should tell that to John Dunlavy who was one of the most respected speaker designers in audio who's testing lab rivaled virtually anything out there. His speakers (in the late 90's) routinely were regarded as the best of the best in Stereophile and Absolute sound. But I'm sure that an amateur bassist on TB would know better.

Cabinet designs are compromises. IMO sealed boxes sound better----but---to get them to the point where they do sound better requires compromises that I for one an unable to live with. (size, weight, low sensitivity)