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Pricing realizations

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by McHack, Mar 25, 2004.


  1. McHack

    McHack

    Jul 29, 2003
    Central Ohio!
    Ok, I've been tracking a few different makes & models of heads, power amps, & things,,, via spreadsheet for a while now. I've been searching for the average price one might expect to pay on ebay, for certain items...

    Well, after looking at some results,,, I've noticed something.

    In most cases, It's actually more cost effective to pick up a SansAmp BDDI, & a low end QSC Power Amp, like an RMX 850,,, than it is, to find a used head, such as an SWR 350, GK 800 or 700, or an Ampeg B2R or SVT3Pro...
     
  2. monkfill

    monkfill

    Jan 1, 2003
    Kansas City
    This also applies to new items.

    Generally you'll also find such a component setup to be more flexible, in that you can trade out various preamps, poweramps, effects, etc. instead of being stuck with all your eggs in one basket.

    Example:

    New Ampeg SVP-Pro preamp ($499)
    New QSC PLX-1602 ($580)
    Total 3-rack space setup- ($1079)

    A new Ampeg SVT 4-Pro, with a similar pre to the SVP and near identical power ratings as the QSC, goes for over $1200 I think. I think about the only thing the SVT 4-Pro adds is a crossover. But with a component rack setup, you can swap out the preamp with something else and use the same poweramp.
     
  3. Yes. That has become a US habit. Outside, getting a head is still the most economical way to get the sound IMO.

    Jure
     
  4. deepestend

    deepestend Supporting Member Commercial User

    Feb 21, 2003
    Brooklyn via Austin and NOLA
    Guitar/Bass Builder and Social Media at Sadowsky
    Yep, just got a Crown XLS 202: 500 watts bridged mono for $192. Couple it with my Sansamp DI that I got for $100 used and my EBS compressor also $100 used and you've got a nice setup.
     
  5. brianrost

    brianrost Gold Supporting Member

    Apr 26, 2000
    Boston, Taxachusetts
    Sure, if price is ALL you care about.

    The integrated heads are smaller and lighter, many don't need to be racked (don't forget to add in the cost of a rack when pricing a rack setup...a good one can set you back $100 or more). The preamps of the integrated heads may have more features than the separate preamp, too (especially compared to the SADDDI).

    The low cost of high wattage power amps these days is pretty amazing, but there are still tradeoffs. Not to mention integrated head prices are falling too in terms of dollar per watt like those $200 Behringer heads.
     
  6. deepestend

    deepestend Supporting Member Commercial User

    Feb 21, 2003
    Brooklyn via Austin and NOLA
    Guitar/Bass Builder and Social Media at Sadowsky
    True, but what if you don't like the features in your head? I have an old hartke 3500 which sounds great, but I don't use the compression or the eq as I have pedals that I prefer to use for that.... I decided to sell it and then use that money for an amp with more power. I see your point, but it works for me and I already have a rack.
     
  7. McHack

    McHack

    Jul 29, 2003
    Central Ohio!
    Yea, I know... However, the thought "You get what you pay for" keeps running round & round in my dome,,, when I think of those BX3000's. A few folks have posted good things about 'em, here at TB. But, for an extra $100, you'd have a rig thats totally slamming...

    If I were to consider a BX3000, it'd be not because its what I WANT,,, but because its a comprimise. If I can add that $100, & not have to comprimise,,, I'm all for it.
     
  8. brianrost

    brianrost Gold Supporting Member

    Apr 26, 2000
    Boston, Taxachusetts
    Sorry but there is ALWAYS a compromise, there will never be a PERFECT amplifier...at least not in my lifetime :meh:

    I could have a slamming rack but a rack that is bigger and heavier than the speaker cab it's driving has little appeal to me.

    Anyway, back to the original post...yes, buying a SABDDI and a $300 power amp makes for a very cost effective system, no doubt about it. Such a system does not answer every need out there, in fact compared to the amp heads I use all the time it is lacking in many ways...so it should come as no surprise I don't use a rack system :p

    Some things you or I might be willing to pay money for in an amp may be hard to quantify but the fact that there are so many different amps on the market shows that one size does not fit all.
     
  9. rickbass

    rickbass Supporting Member

    Depends, IMO, what you need and what you want the gear to do.

    I'll assume your're playing out. If you're playing in your house, this post is meaningless.

    If all you want is "booom!", get an Ibanez-Behringer setup with a MIDI and bore people all night after the first set.

    Bottomline, you won't even find a pro (even with credit problems) using the formula you've cooked up, There's a very good reason A-1 amplification cost what it does, starting with dependability.

    Then again, I could be totally wrong........maybe the music you play doesn't require much in the way of gear. That's no dis. I'd rather listen to a fine player with a Mexican Fender and a small Peavey amp than a B-string addict like Sam Rivers with a fortune of gear.
     
  10. McHack

    McHack

    Jul 29, 2003
    Central Ohio!
    Some peoples budgets are limited NOT by the almighty dollar,,, but by the almighty wife. So, purchases tend to be well planned steps w/ justifications. Rather than, "Hey, lets run down to GC, I need to pick up an (insert high dollar amp here) Plus, in no way, is an Aguilar 659 & 728 in my budget.

    So, that's where the whole concession thing starts. How can I optimize my dollars spent. I'm a software engineer,, so I tend to over analyze everything, to the point of utter confusion. I originally began tracking these pricing averages, because it was my intention to end up w/ one of the heads I listed originally & cabs of my choice. So, I wanted to be an informed consumer.

    Then, as I pick out bits of information from here at TB, it seems I've seen more than one post, where someone is using an SABDDI (preferably an RBI, but....) , a power amp & thier choice of cabs. So, I started including these items in my tracking....

    It is my perception that an SABDDI + Power Amp + Cab choices is going to do ANYTHING that one of the heads I've listed can do,,, but substantially more so. If I'm way off base, explain why.
     
  11. McHack

    McHack

    Jul 29, 2003
    Central Ohio!
    Looking for more feedback... please review this thread & provide suggestions if I'm going in a direction which seems,,, "stupid"...
     
  12. McHack

    McHack

    Jul 29, 2003
    Central Ohio!
    Ok, thx for the input... Maybe I'm dense, but somehow I wasn't getting what I needed to discard this idea of mine,, before I read it that way...

    Sure seems like alot of folks favor the BX3000 these days... & for $200 it seems like its almost a no brainer. At least a good place to start,, maybe a used GK800...
     
  13. I used the SABDDI as a preamp with a older peavey power amp and it was fine. it was very flexible and i was able to dial in a bunch of cool tones. I used the SansAmp Bass Compactor with it and i had killer tone... no mods necessary for the SABDDI...
     
  14. Bob Lee (QSC)

    Bob Lee (QSC) In case you missed it, I work for QSC Audio! Gold Supporting Member Commercial User

    Jul 3, 2001
    Costa Mesa, Calif.
    Technical Communications Developer, QSC Audio
    Because sometimes you don't get what you pay for, I'd turn the axiom around to "You pay for what you get." ;)
     
  15. philthygeezer

    philthygeezer

    May 22, 2002
    I got a used Sansamp RBI, Yorkville AP1200 power amp and 4 space rack case for the same price as a new Yorkville XS400T amp.

    400w X2 @8 ohms
    635w X2 @4 ohms

    Tone similar to my BDDI + Combo.

    :D
     
  16. ESP-LTD

    ESP-LTD

    Sep 9, 2001
    Idaho
    I suppose thats reasonable if you can't find a used Yamaha PB1 preamp to go with the QSC. :)
     
  17. philthygeezer

    philthygeezer

    May 22, 2002
    The bottom line for me here was how much power I could get for ~CDN$700. The RBI is a great preamp, and I love what the BDDI does for my combo. I've not found the Sansamp stuff to be muddy at all: Rather the sound on my combo went from a boring 2D scroller to 3-D Counterstrike with voice communication with the BDDI! There are limiters on the power amp and I'll get a dial on the cab for tweeter adjustment.

    It came down to choosing between these two because they were the same price. I can properly drive 400-500 watt cabs now, with no concerns about lack of power. The Yorkville is the best deal on a new amp there is, to my way of thinking. But Ontario's bloody 15% sales tax makes me want to buy used. Idiot government: Want a burgeoning economy? Then stop taxing the h3!! out of us, you jerks!
     
  18. bassplayer347

    bassplayer347 Guest

    Dec 24, 2003
    Kansas
    I've been using a sansamp BDDI for the last 9 months going direct to the FOH and using the stage monitors to hear myself. Great sound out front, passable sound on stage.......

    I love the light weight of this set up after years of lugging way too heavy bass amps.

    But, (and a big but) after a few bad monitor mixes I've decided I need a little more control over my stage mix. I have a Peavey 210 combo, but come on, a 100lbs stage monitor....lets get real. So I decide to check out a few options I've been reading about in the forums here.

    At my local music shop, Mass Street Music (spam), I noticed a Genz Benz ML 200 - 112T ..... 200 watts, wedge shape, 12" speaker..... Looks like just what I need. After a half hour of playing with the EQ I get a pretty good sound, better that the stage monitors I've been using. The I set the EQ flat, whip out the BDDI and there's my sound. Seems like a waste to have a preamp I won't use.

    I decided to try out the aggie GS 112 they have there. I went direct into a QSC Pxl 1602, 300 watts @ 8ohms, driving 1 channel, with the BDDI....... There was the sound I was looking for. I've heard that the BDDI wouldn't drive a poweramp, and I admit I did have to max the volume control on the DI, but I could drive the meter to -10db with a fairly light attack, so I think this would work great in bridge mode with a slightly smaller amp.

    It seems to me the power amp and cabinet will be a much more flexable set up, in my case anyways..... and the BDDI give me the sound I want without all the bells and whistles. :cool:
     
  19. The BDDI is a little limiting as far as preamps go but the RBI is another story.It does have enough output to drive most power amps and has the added mid control.It also has more inputs and output patches plus a good effects loop.I've been using one for a couple years and it does eveything I need it to and even some things I don't need.The main thing is the tone you get with it.I bought a BDDI for a direct box a few years ago and when I hooked it up to my Carvin head(R 1000) there was my sound.Now I use an RBI with a Crown CE 1000 power amp and I couldn't be happier with my sound and power.If you like the tones you can get with a BDDI the RBI is a step up.I got my preamp for $200 at a scratch and dent sale and the Crown for $400.Those heads are nice but you can do better with a pre-power amp setup if you shop around.
     
  20. McHack

    McHack

    Jul 29, 2003
    Central Ohio!
    Ok, thx for the great replies...

    I was prepared to deal w/ a limited pre-amp section. But, it sounds like the output of a BDDI might actually be a limitation as well... but, can be over-compensated for by cranking it...

    THIS leaves me wondering, what are some legitimate choices for good, affordable pre amps.... I know the RBI, & thats very tempting... I'm just beginning any sort of research at all, & I honestly don't know whats available, etc...