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Pro Behringer!
- Thread starter olds_cool63
- Start date
i'm still going to hate behringer and love ampeg no matter what happens.OOOkay, after reading this freaking thread in it's entirety and bassically laughing at some of the comparisons and comments made by some posters of each side of the coin, I have decided to retire to the amps forum here on TB and take an account of each and every thread complaining off gear that has failed. I will make a graph showing the results by brand and post my results in this thread when finished.
Chips are circuits - they're called integrated circuits
Chip manufacturers publish reference designs using supporting components to interface to the real world. There may be only one right set of components there may be only one right way to wire up the chip to these components, one correct layout. You can't sue someone over that. You can try, but you will not win. Behringer has not been found liable in a case in 20+ years.
And their patents protect the IP on 'chips' and other technologies they develop. They'd sue you A$$ off if you tried to steal it.
There's not much external circuitry - it's nearly all in the chips. That was the point. There's nothing to steal.
For some reason B. are hated by so many...
Why a Tapco or Mackie mixers do not pass electrical shock to a microphone, and Behringer does it?
Why a TASCAM AD/DA is fantastic, and Behringer's is a junk?
Why a Tapco or Mackie mixers do not pass electrical shock to a microphone, and Behringer does it?
Why a TASCAM AD/DA is fantastic, and Behringer's is a junk?
OOOkay, after reading this freaking thread in it's entirety and bassically laughing at some of the comparisons and comments made by some posters of each side of the coin, I have decided to retire to the amps forum here on TB and take an account of each and every thread complaining off gear that has failed. I will make a graph showing the results by brand and post my results in this thread when finished.
Knock yourself out...............
However, the results will be skewed for a couple of reasons:
A) Not many people ADMIT to using Behringer
B) Behringer owners don't complain about their amps dying and look for repair advice because they know they are disposable and not worth the COST of repair.
I'll admit to using Behringer amps/cabs/combo etc.
And while I have had NO issues as others have had (at least no more than any other brand), I'll admit that some of there stuff is well below par for pro gigs. Maybe i've just been VERY lucky? Dunno. I never pushed my gear, either.
That pretty silly to assert that everyone is using reference designs. Even computer motherboards which are a lot more sophisticated and have shorter product cycles than audio gear have considerable variation from reference designs. Point is moot. Mackie lost the case specifically because "circuit board layout was not covered by U.S. copyright law". This is not because Behringer was right mind you, rather that Mackie's legal team used a poor gambit. Mixers have been around for decades. Mackie was hoping they could get a Fender vs Gibson (1965, Firebird) type of legal ruling. That the Behringer mixer was enough like the Mackie to confuse customers and steal market share (likely actually). It didnt work.
Behringer was sued by Aphex Systems for copying the Aural Exciter Type Fin that case Aphex Systems won.... $350,000.
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=iQ4EAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA34#v=onepage&q&f=false
Man there is so much crud on this board it's gonna take me a week to go through it all. Not worth my time, but I can tell you that so far from what i've read in the amp forum, it's not behringer brand quality that has the most threads. I won't say what brand does since i'm not going on with my study but I will say that it is a crap shoot between two of the brands that get the most praise here on TB. With that said I think kinda like Jimmy as in the fact that no matter what someone else says about a product I will make my own judgement when I use that product if ever. Until then I won't pass judgement.
Reference designs are a place to start. Some engineer figuring out how to lower noise by changing some external component is not likely to be the only engineer to do so.
20+ years ago $350,000 was a lot of money, but Behringer stayed in business and unfortunately forever gets retrials on the internet.
Yep - if you pay more for gear, you're more likely to think it's worth fixing. Maybe some expensive gear actually falls into the same category and people fix it anyhow.
Not everything newer is better, but a lot of technology is
$4000.00 cell phones of 1984
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Depending what gear we're talking about.
Drummers prefer new equipment, including good digital drums. "Vintage" drums are not good, and only few play old drums, for specific tone. You however do not expect the drum rig falling apiece while played.
Electric guitarist really prefer vintage tube amps, or possibly reissues. Some like the flexibility of the digital technology, but most are conservative. Old Fender or Marshall tube amp keeps its value. Nobody however expects seeing smoke during the gig. Digital guitar processors aren't cheap and nobody's happy to change the digital processor every 3-5 years, but this begins to happen. Nobody accepts crappy tone of an effect or a processor, so $30 B. effects are not appreciated.
Bassists? We know. Some prefer old vintage extremely heavy gear, some prefer modern, lightweight gear (talking amps and cabs). Will anybody like going their amp to hell during the show? I doubt.
I am against treating gear as "single use material". I don't like to undergo electrical shock while singing. I don't like a fire onstage or at home. I will not ashame myself with the B. logo onstage - playing boutique bass guitar and amplifying by B's junk?
NO WAY.
Drummers prefer new equipment, including good digital drums. "Vintage" drums are not good, and only few play old drums, for specific tone. You however do not expect the drum rig falling apiece while played.
Electric guitarist really prefer vintage tube amps, or possibly reissues. Some like the flexibility of the digital technology, but most are conservative. Old Fender or Marshall tube amp keeps its value. Nobody however expects seeing smoke during the gig. Digital guitar processors aren't cheap and nobody's happy to change the digital processor every 3-5 years, but this begins to happen. Nobody accepts crappy tone of an effect or a processor, so $30 B. effects are not appreciated.
Bassists? We know. Some prefer old vintage extremely heavy gear, some prefer modern, lightweight gear (talking amps and cabs). Will anybody like going their amp to hell during the show? I doubt.
I am against treating gear as "single use material". I don't like to undergo electrical shock while singing. I don't like a fire onstage or at home. I will not ashame myself with the B. logo onstage - playing boutique bass guitar and amplifying by B's junk?
NO WAY.
I can't find what year Aphex sued Behringer, but in 1995 $350,000 has the same purchasing power as $508,255.58 today, this is based on a inflation calculator.
I'm not sure on the details of the case, but on my search to finding the year of the Aphex/Behringer case I found an email that apparently came from Behringer about the case dated 1999 (the email referred to the law suit as "a few years ago"). In that email, it was implied that Behringer stole the "idea" of the the functionality of a feature, but did not copy it's in design in engineering. It was stated that the circuit board was different and you can't patent a feature in general, but you can patent how you made the feature come to be.
Metaphorically, it would be the same as Mercedes-Benz, accepted as the father of all internal combustion automobiles, suing Honda/Ford/Cheverolet. etc. for the building other cars that also have internal combustion automobiles. It is the very spirit of competition that keeps manufacturers from price gauging.
However, it would seem that the engineering of the product was sufficiently similar enough to have a jury side of the part of Aphex.
Besides, some of you argue that you would not use products from a company that "steals" concepts or other forms of intellectual properties, but how many of you have facebook accounts? And after the "Social Network" and the loss of every lawsuit against the owner, how could you deny that Mark Zuckerberg stole the idea of facebook?
I for one intend to use Behringer products simply because it is all I can afford at this time in my life.
I can't begin to tell you how WRONG that statement is.....
As for those claiming "Morals" here... Well. I bet your typing the message out on a Apple or M$ pc.... Both companies have been sued and lost many times for stealing from other companies. Unless your using Linux you have no morals... Wait, Linux has been sued too..... Guess you send your messages to the net with a carrier pigon huh.... I think there is a word for those who claim one thing about others and then do the same things themselves.
I'm knee deep in Behringer gear and will tell you when it fails, until it does however I won't be listening to the stories of doom and gloom. As for customer service, well, they provided that up front with the price of the product, Unless you think it's a disservice to save the customer some cash.
I see that as far more moral than those who Charge large amounts on initial purchase so they have the cash to support the constant service demands after the fact..... Who is to say that claim isn't valid?
And ya, if a $100 part breaks, why spend $60 and wait weeks for it to be returned when you can just go grab a new one cheap. If I save 50% up front I'm only breaking even when I buy the second unit and can then get the first repaired at my leasure without any downtime. Don't really see the downside of keeping my eggs in two baskets.
Seriously, I could walk out of the store with TWO Behringer Vamp PRO's for the price of one Line 6 pod.
-eSmith.
I guess it's more than 20 years ago, it still won't die. Aphex is available as a plugin now many times over - and it's nothing special.
http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f15/behringer-solid-name-388120/index3.html#post5037580
It's more about the music than the gear. Some players can play any gear and sound great. Play and get heard, then worry about the gear.
Some people just don't know how to move on. I guess it entitles the people already hate Behringer to have an excuse to hate them for a bit long, "because when I was a baby, they were sued!"
I hate Boss pedals. CAN NOT stand them. The lack of true bypass, assembly-made in Asia, with jacked up prices on designs that have long since paid themselves off. And people uphold them as the standard. No thank you.
I hate Boss pedals. CAN NOT stand them. The lack of true bypass, assembly-made in Asia, with jacked up prices on designs that have long since paid themselves off. And people uphold them as the standard. No thank you.
By analogy, I could walk out of a shop with several bottles of sour table wine for the price of a bottle of Barolo. Still, I prefer good wine.
I don't use the Line6 POD XT w/ Bass Extension for the bass; I've found it unsatisfactory. But some guitar amp models in the POD are great and especially useful/convenient for making recordings. I cannot say the same about any Behringer effect or processor I've tried so far.
