Problem installing new Hipshot super tone bridge on my Epiphone thunderbird

[madasatadpole]

Installation went smoothly when i changed to a hipshot super tone bridge and the reason i changed was the original 3 point bridge was pulling one of the studs that held it clean out of the bass? so i stripped the 3 point off and glued the ferrel back in using gorilla super glue, after leaving overnight i put the hipshot in and bolted it down, after restringing the bass i noticed the action was really high so i started adjusting until the saddles bottomed out and the action was still way too high? i couldn't believe it i thought the hipshot would solve my problem with high action? pretty expensive to be mucking around like this tbh not happy so i had two options mill some off the bottom of the bridge (didnt fancy) or shim the neck, i decided to shim the neck using business cards i released the neck and started with one card and it was better, but there was still no adjustment on the saddles so i installed another card and at last i had adjustment but i had to lift the saddles right up to set the action? after setting a nice action with no fret buzz, i tuned to concert and both posts suddenly pulled out of the guitar? why do these posts pull out? grrr, i love the sound of this guitar but i doubt i will ever have the pleasure of gigging it, with all this going on, can anybody explain where i went wrong?

 

[madasatadpole]

Think i might drill straight through the body and sink two nuts into the wood at back off bass and bolt the thing straight through,
at least i could use it, just waiting for some thick c a glue first seeing as gorilla glue failed! if that don't work with the ferrels then i'm going straight through. grrr

 

[Matt Liebenau]

Thoroughly cleaning the bushing holes and using good epoxy might work better then CA glue. I have not found any CA that adheres well to metal.

 

[madasatadpole]

Yes cleared the bushing holes and i have got some epoxy metal stuff
it activates by mixing but its like a putty i need to really work it to get it soft but i guess i will try it? it goes off solid, i wont bother with the ca stuff thanks to your advice i'll try it tomorrow, its 8.45 in the evening here so too late now, i will let you know if it works!
failing this i really am going to bolt through the body,as a last resort, don't understand how people rate this bridge when it clearly dosent work or maybe its ok for gibson thunderbirds
and not epiphone? anyway thanks for your reply much appreciated

 

[Big Fat Walrus]

Did you place any washers or spacers into the mounting holes of the bridge? I have a Supertone on an Epiphone LP myself; on my bridge the mounting holes have a larger outer diameter than the flanges of the body ferrules. This means there is no contact between the bridge and the ferrule, and tightening the bridge bolts (without any spacer/washer) would simply pull the ferrules out. Try some metric washers; I believe three 'small M8' in each pocket was slightly proud of my bridge. A little lapping on sandpaper and they were flush.

Pull the bridge and take a look at those diameters

 

[madasatadpole]

first of all thanks for replying much appreciated
the hipshot i bought came from budapest i bought it of ebay for 135.00
but it also came with a Bartolini Pickup T4cbc-t so for the items it wer'nt a bad deal
the hipshot had no bolts with it but i have an array of bolts in my spares and cut two down to fit!
the heads are round with alan key tightening and they do touch the side of the mounting holes,
but as you know the flange holes are slightly of center by a couple of mm so anyway when i first bolted down
it tightened and the bridge was flush to the bass, the problem only arose when i was trying to achieve a decent action through using a neck shim. and the saddles got a bit high. cheers i will look into the washer side of it thanks

 

[MCF]

Adventures in three point land. It is aggravating. I have three Epi bolt-on birds. I'm using the Supertone on a Goth. No issues. I have a Silverburst that I picked up used with the inserts popping up. Took two tries, but Titebond did the trick after letting it set for several days. You may need to add some narrow tooth pics around the hole(s). I'd use epoxy only as a last resort. It is easy to over-tighten the Supertone bolts and have the issue with the inserts. Also be careful on the control side insert; there's a ground wire there that needs to have contact with the insert.

As for the shim, consider one of the StewMac pre-cut shims.; They come in three different thicknesses with .25, .50 and 1.0 degree tapers.

hope you can avoid the through-body idea. If you do it, I'm interested to learn hoe that worked.

 

[Big Fat Walrus]

the heads are round with alan key tightening and they do touch the side of the mounting holes

That is not what I mean. Look at the holes on the bottom of the bridge (the side that touches the instrument), not the top. If the bridge holes are larger than the ferrules, all you are doing by tightening the bolts is leveraging the ferrules out of the body. You need to ensure there is contact between the ferrule and the bridge to prevent this effect. Glue might prevent this for a bit, but eventually the mechanical force applied will pull the ferrules out, especially with the strings at proper tension.

Additionally, since you have already pulled the ferrules out, I would suggest adding some wood filler (toothpick slivers?) to the glue mixture before re-setting your ferrules. Adhesive alone is not the best solution; a tight press fit will help keep those ferrules snug. My LP is nearly 25 years old, and the ferrules have never moved.

 

[Matt Liebenau]

On the stock bridge it also seems to help to have the front post of the bridge slightly higher then the two in the back so the bridge "slopes down" towards the two back posts. Not sure if it makes a difference on the Hipshot.

Not too sure if the putty type epoxy will be better then CA glue. I don't have any experience with it.

 

[Big Fat Walrus]

The Hipshot does not use the forward post; only the rear two

 

[madasatadpole]

That is not what I mean. Look at the holes on the bottom of the bridge (the side that touches the instrument), not the top. If the bridge holes are larger than the ferrules, all you are doing by tightening the bolts is leveraging the ferrules out of the body. You need to ensure there is contact between the ferrule and the bridge to prevent this effect. Glue might prevent this for a bit, but eventually the mechanical force applied will pull the ferrules out, especially with the strings at proper tension.

Additionally, since you have already pulled the ferrules out, I would suggest adding some wood filler (toothpick slivers?) to the glue mixture before re-setting your ferrules. Adhesive alone is not the best solution; a tight press fit will help keep those ferrules snug. My LP is nearly 25 years old, and the ferrules have never moved.

brilliant! i get what you mean now! yes i just checked will shim the holes up with a couple off washers so the bolt slides through and the underside will be flush and in contact with the ferrules! thanks so much i understand the physics of it now, i wonder why the bridge needed those big sink holes in the underside in the first place sinkholes the size of the ferrule rim would be better? weird?
top bloke thanks again

 

[madasatadpole]

Adventures in three point land. It is aggravating. I have three Epi bolt-on birds. I'm using the Supertone on a Goth. No issues. I have a Silverburst that I picked up used with the inserts popping up. Took two tries, but Titebond did the trick after letting it set for several days. You may need to add some narrow tooth pics around the hole(s). I'd use epoxy only as a last resort. It is easy to over-tighten the Supertone bolts and have the issue with the inserts. Also be careful on the control side insert; there's a ground wire there that needs to have contact with the insert.

As for the shim, consider one of the StewMac pre-cut shims.; They come in three different thicknesses with .25, .50 and 1.0 degree tapers.

hope you can avoid the through-body idea. If you do it, I'm interested to learn hoe that worked.

the through body will work i'm sure i have a small amount of engineering expertise, so should be able to pull it off as a last resort the control side ferrule hole has a small crack running down the control side although i cant see a ground wire i suspect that's what the crack holds? will look into obtaining some titebond and tooth picks thanks so much for your observations they have been a big help.
regards

 

[Big Fat Walrus]

As a machinist by trade, I would strongly advise you not to attempt to drill through the body of your bass for an entirely unnecessary reason. You are opening quite a can of worms there. Re-insert the ferrules to your body with enough wood fill so that it requires a slight tap to seat flush, let it cure for a day, space out the bridge cavity as required, and install the bridge and be done with it. The issue you have is a simple one; there is no need to make it a difficult one.

Good Luck

 

[madasatadpole]

As a machinist by trade, I would strongly advise you not to attempt to drill through the body of your bass for an entirely unnecessary reason. You are opening quite a can of worms there. Re-insert the ferrules to your body with enough wood fill so that it requires a slight tap to seat flush, let it cure for a day, space out the bridge cavity as required, and install the bridge and be done with it. The issue you have is a simple one; there is no need to make it a difficult one.

Good Luck

Thank you i could do with some
will do as you say.
regards

 

[madasatadpole]

big thanks to all the guys who helped me sort my thunderbird out, special mention to big fat walrus you where spot on with the washer inserts underneath the hipshot bridge it worked a treat, bass is up and running and nice action no fret buzz and definitely my go to bass, i am so relieved the guitar is now living up to my expectations and it sounds brilliant! the stock pickups are that good i dont think i'm going to bother with the bartolini pup think i'm just going to play it as it is! thanks again all and stay safe.

 

[Matt Liebenau]

Glad you got it sorted out! Happy I was wrong and you didn't have to glue the bushings in.

 

[madasatadpole]

Glad you got it sorted out! Happy I was wrong and you didn't have to glue the bushings in.

I did glue the bushings in Mattwith some slivers of toothpick tapped them in flush and waited 6 hours for the glue to harden but putting packing washers under the hipshot bridge in the recesses is what really nailed it! without them the bridge itself pulls the ferrules out into the recesses when you tighten the bridge down so everyone was right another good reason for joining talk bass cheers Matt.

 

[Big Fat Walrus]

Glad to hear

 

[Matt Liebenau]

I did glue the bushings in Mattwith some slivers of toothpick tapped them in flush and waited 6 hours for the glue to harden but putting packing washers under the hipshot bridge in the recesses is what really nailed it! without them the bridge itself pulls the ferrules out into the recesses when you tighten the bridge down so everyone was right another good reason for joining talk bass cheers Matt.

I have not tried that bridge but what was being described is almost exactly how I pull bushings out of a body for repairs or paint. I just use PVC and washers and not a bridge! I will keep it in mind if I ever decide to buy one or someone needs one installed so, as you said, learned something!

 

[Lownote38]

Did you place any washers or spacers into the mounting holes of the bridge? I have a Supertone on an Epiphone LP myself; on my bridge the mounting holes have a larger outer diameter than the flanges of the body ferrules. This means there is no contact between the bridge and the ferrule, and tightening the bridge bolts (without any spacer/washer) would simply pull the ferrules out. Try some metric washers; I believe three 'small M8' in each pocket was slightly proud of my bridge. A little lapping on sandpaper and they were flush.

Pull the bridge and take a look at those diameters

^^ This! The Hipshot has recessed holes underneath, and I have no idea why they did that. It just begs to pull out the ferrules. I used two M8 washers in each of those recesses, and it was perfect.