Problem with drummer

[BillyRay]

I'm about to throw the towel here, seriously. I've worked with stuborn or plain old slow in the head musicians in the past, but this is taking it to a new level. The drummer in my band is making me CRAZY for several reasons, but what really pushes me over the edge is that he has no concept of dynamics or geling with the others while having crazy coordination and talent.

Exhibit A: He will play as loud as possible for the whole song and just pound away even harder on the bridge, making him lose his focus/rythmn. This means that practice volume is usually on the insane side of things and rehearsing should be done at low volume so kinks and problems can be worked out, imho.

Exhibit B: He never knows where or how to come on time in transitions, unless we spell out to him where to come in. Never. On a standard 4/4 rock number, he'll come in with some crazy syncopated crash ride while all that is necessary is one hit per beat on the tom... I don't even play drums but I showed him how to do it last practice and it sounded ace...

I've tried every approach: coaxing him into playing softer and listening to the others, having him count out loud, playing to a click, etc. It just doesn't work. This guy has been in exactly ONE band (the band I'm into right now) and he's a founding member while I'm not so it's touchy. He is set in his way: he almost never practices by himself or to a metronome. In fact, I don't think he ever practiced by himself. But he has raw talent. He has flair when he gets his game togheter and listens, but that happens on a random basis and during shows. It's just that he doesn't realize how awesome he sounds when he actually contributes to the song instead of trying to ouverrun all of us...

Any suggestions ?

 

[Step]

I actually have a very similar problem, our drummer is very good but doesn't practice, because she makes up for it with raw talent.
but while the guitarist and me are trying very hard to learn every song we do, she usually comes unprepared and improvises something, learns nothing new etc.

it irritated me so much I started looking for a new band, and I found 2, so i guess I'm happy now

are the other band members oblivious to him being so hard to work with? what do they think?

 

[XCincyBassMan]

Do you have the ability to record? If so, record your next rehersal. That way you can prove to him his awsomeness when he follows your instructions!

Good Luck!
Russ

 

[playinpearls]

as a drummer, i can say that his #1 reason is not being musically mature...

how old is he and when did he start playing?

 

[Peaved]

A few ideas:

• Record/videotape your next gig. If he's not embarrassed during the playback, fire him
• Ask a decent drummer to sit in for a tune or two sometime--perhaps it will inspire him
• Recommend a Peterson BodyBeat Pulsing Metronome

 

[DWBass]

Wow! Do we have the same drummer?? In addition, our drummer counts off in a different time than the song is actually in! He also has no idea how to start songs (be a leader), cue changes or end songs! We gave him the boot after the last gig we had.

 

[swbest3]

Wow...for a moment I had to check to see if I had written this...I just joined a group a few months ago whose drummer has no dynamics and always plays an inconsistent over active kick drum (texas country music)...It's all very frustrating...I feel your pain...

 

[StyleOverShow]

Coach the guy, although it sounds like you have tried. Getting him to feel the groove and how fundamental the percussion and bass are to that is essential. The dynamics, fills and everything else follows.

Sounds like he plays balls out because that what he thinks good drummers do. Help him understand what the best drummers do.

 

[73jbass]

Sounds like almost every drummer in Atlanta.

 

[BillyRay]

Sounds like almost every drummer in the world.

FYP.

 

[BillyRay]

This band has a demo. The playing on it is horrible, but since the whole thing was recorded in the lousiest manner possible, I can't really fault him or single him out. I've asked them when I heard the demo if they used a scratch track. They didn't know what a scractch track was: everything was recorded live and "mixed" while going the audio port of a cheap pc thru a single overhead mic.

Mama mia!

We'll try to record next practice and see what it leads to, but I have doubts. I already have done so but he is usually agressive when I show him his mistakes: he knows that I have vastly more experience than all of the band put togheter and he doesn't like it. The band has changed dynamics a lot since I've joined since I've almost been the sole song contributor and the guitarist and I see eye-to-eye about cover choices, setlist, arrangements while he does not. In fact, he has been very reticent about most changes to the setlist or style choices (I like rock, real rock and roll, Chuck Berry style, while they used to play poppitty stuff like Blink 182).

Guitarist is also his brother, so he sometimes feel we gang up on him.

 

[need4mospd]

The drummer in my band is making me CRAZY for several reasons, but what really pushes me over the edge is that he has no concept of dynamics or geling with the others while having crazy coordination and talent.

From what you said, he has neither of those. Coordination involves coming in on time and keeping the beat SOLID. I certainly wouldn't call someone talented if they couldn't recognize their playing doesn't fit with what the band is playing.

 

[JKT]

From what you said, he has neither of those. Coordination involves coming in on time and keeping the beat SOLID. I certainly wouldn't call someone talented if they couldn't recognize their playing doesn't fit with what the band is playing.

+1

I know it's your frustration, but on one hand you're complimenting him at the same time you're recomplaining about him. Many of us have been there anf feel your pain.

It sounds like you are far beyond this whole band. Time for honest, yet friendly talk. It's hard for many players particularly younger ones and I didn't get how old you are but for me, life is short and I would have no problem sitting them all down for a chat. Topics would include:

Stage volume and dynamics

Short term goals

Long term goals

Material

Work ethic

After discussing these topics and communicating where you stand, and hopefully hearing where everyone else stands, you should have a score sheet either in your head or actually on paper, which should give you a good indication of whether or not you're wasting your time.

Drummmers or any musician for that matter, that have one volume, can't take criticism, have no vision, AND poor time are basically useless to me. Unless they are making measurable strides in improving in all these areas, it's most likely not gonna work.

JKT

 

[Slax]

+1

I know it's your frustration, but on one hand you're complimenting him at the same time you're recomplaining about him. Many of us have been there anf feel your pain.

It sounds like you are far beyond this whole band. Time for honest, yet friendly talk. It's hard for many players particularly younger ones and I didn't get how old you are but for me, life is short and I would have no problem sitting them all down for a chat. Topics would include:

Stage volume and dynamics

Short term goals

Long term goals

Material

Work ethic

After discussing these topics and communicating where you stand, and hopefully hearing where everyone else stands, you should have a score sheet either in your head or actually on paper, which should give you a good indication of whether or not you're wasting your time.

Drummmers or any musician for that matter, that have one volume, can't take criticism, have no vision, AND poor time are basically useless to me. Unless they are making measurable strides in improving in all these areas, it's most likely not gonna work.

JKT

+1. I've been in bands with drummers just like this. It's irritating and if no one says something there's no hope at it changing. Even then, it's still up in the air.

Best of luck.

 

[BillyRay]

From what you said, he has neither of those. Coordination involves coming in on time and keeping the beat SOLID. I certainly wouldn't call someone talented if they couldn't recognize their playing doesn't fit with what the band is playing.

He is a strange beast. As I said, his playing during shows is impeccable (most of the time): he'll concentrate on giving his best and since we play small venues, his volume level is usually okay since his kit isn't big (and we don't mic him obviously) but we get the added benefit of being able to crank it more. He also doesn't do goofy stuff like ask 5 times in a row where to come in: he'll roll with the punches and play less fancy because he know he'll look stupid if he messes up in front of the crowd.

And when I say he has good coordination and talent, it's because he has, the same way you see someone sucking immensely on guitar, but you hear/feel that this guy will get somewhere someday if he puts the work into it and gets serious. With other people, you don't see that and know they'll keep on sucking for the rest of their life.

I'd say it comes down more to work ethic and, has was pointed out earlier, musical maturity. This guy thinks Travis Barker is great. While not being bad, Travis isn't the most tasteful/solid guy in the world. He won't listen to much different music, while I spent my adolescence transcribing jazz horn solos... So we come from different background...

I think a band talk is really in order since we have a couple of important shows coming in and musical progress of the band might dictate my decision to stay or quit. It's just that this guy and the guitarist come as a package and I have a very good musical relationship with him.

 

[blubass]

.... And he's still in the band? Seriously, I've had the same problems with other members and you have to weigh your options, and your goals. Are you looking to play gigs? Do you want to just be a garage band? Are you wanting to make it big? He's not a drummer if he doesn't know how to drum. Tell him straight up what you are feeling, and what will happen if he doesn't fix it. It's your time you are wasting, so plan on wasting it, or spending that time auditioning new drummers. You should have your drummer practicing on his own with dynamics and fills, as well.

 

[taterlog]

firing krappy drummers builds character...

bad drummers get fired
okay drummers get the occasional call
good drummers stick around

but they all want to sleep on your sofa

 

[ForestThump]

To sum up:
Record it and analyze with the WHOLE group.
Talk to him.
If it doesn't get better, get another drummer.
I just wanted to add that drums don't have tobe hit hard to get the best tone out of them and it's a real revelation to play with drummers that understand this as well as where the head is struck AND the importance of how to tune them.

 

[BillyRay]

.... And he's still in the band? Seriously, I've had the same problems with other members and you have to weigh your options, and your goals. Are you looking to play gigs? Do you want to just be a garage band? Are you wanting to make it big? He's not a drummer if he doesn't know how to drum. Tell him straight up what you are feeling, and what will happen if he doesn't fix it. It's your time you are wasting, so plan on wasting it, or spending that time auditioning new drummers. You should have your drummer practicing on his own with dynamics and fills, as well.

Firing him is not an option:
a) We rehearse at his place.
b) His brother is the guitarist.

Myself quitting and try to "steal" the guitarist is an option though. But I really don't like it and being in this band, even if it's frustrating, is better than nothing. I've chugged through way worse situations than this before, when I was mainly playing as a "backing" musician.

But I'm searching for another band that's for sure.

 

[blubass]

No offense, but it sounds like you are a glutton for punishment! I see your point in not being able to fire him, because of the family ties, but if i may site Chevelle, they are a three piece band (all brothers) who fired their brother (bassist)! You have to do what is best for the band, in your case, it sounds like leaving the band is the best option. Bands come and go, and you will bounce in and out of them, but what's the point if 40 years down the line you look back and never had a band you were proud of, because of a problem that was never solved.