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Project Vista Sonic (rut row, JIO's at it again!)

#81
Now a member of the Burns fb group and have contacted Mr Lovegrove about the neck plate. Once the bass arrives (next week) I'll look under the scratchplate for the serial # which I'll send for an accurate engraved plate. The Vista Sonic being made in '64 was made in the UK for the UK market. American imports then arrived under the Ampeg brand name. The Vista Sonic bass was made from '62-'64, 3 years, replaced in '65 by the Jazz bass. '65 was the late year Jim Burns owned the company, selling it to Baldwin. Like his American counterpart Leo Fender, Jim Burns wasn't the best business man. He was the idea guy - the founder/visionary of those quirky iconic guitars/basses. His name remained a part of the later Baldwins engraved on the tri-sonic pick-ups and elaborate bridge-plates. Where Leo Fender's designs were basic, Jim Burns' designs were excessive, big and bold. "The Bison" sez' it all.

I checked to see if there was a Jim Burns of London Club here on tb and it appears there isn't one. Not sure there would be enough interest if one was started but there are a lot of tb members from the UK...

Anyway, found this pic of a later '60s Baldwin with the string-mute intact. Can't see the foam under it but it's a pretty clear view of the mute bar. Also shown is the aformentioned bridge plate w/inscription.

up1adjzvdbeccr4gsobz.jpg
 
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#82
Cool, now I know what the mute looks like, I know I don't really want it, except just to have it, not to use it.

The Rezo-tube bridge wasn't used on the Vista Sonic (unless the Ampegs are different). If you want, I can try to get close enough to the closet where I've stashed mine and take a photo. No guarantee when, though; my partner is in the hospital and between visiting her and trying to spend enough time at work to still get a paycheck, I'm not home as much as usual this week.
 
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#83
You know, the more I look at that stupid mute bar, the more I think, "what the hell, Jim?" I mean, here's a guy that overcomplicates things, replacing a simple truss rod nut with a gearbox, etc., and this is the best he can come up with for a mute? Unless he figured that it was an always-on sort of thing, set and forget. Still.
 
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#84
farace said:
Cool, now I know what the mute looks like, I know I don't really want it, except just to have it, not to use it.

The Rezo-tube bridge wasn't used on the Vista Sonic (unless the Ampegs are different). If you want, I can try to get close enough to the closet where I've stashed mine and take a photo. No guarantee when, though; my partner is in the hospital and between visiting her and trying to spend enough time at work to still get a paycheck, I'm not home as much as usual this week.
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Oh, I know that the Rezo-tube bridge wasn't used on the Vista Sonic - that Baldwin "Baby Bison" bass is on Reverb and I just saw that the mute-bar was the same 2-screw unit. It was a set and forget deal - probably why most were removed and lost. It does seem too basic for JB's complicated sense of design.
 
#85
farace said:
Cool, now I know what the mute looks like, I know I don't really want it, except just to have it, not to use it.

The Rezo-tube bridge wasn't used on the Vista Sonic (unless the Ampegs are different). If you want, I can try to get close enough to the closet where I've stashed mine and take a photo. No guarantee when, though; my partner is in the hospital and between visiting her and trying to spend enough time at work to still get a paycheck, I'm not home as much as usual this week.
Click to expand...
Sorry about that, man. Hope your partner is OK and is able to go home soon.
 
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#87
farace said:
Thank you, I really appreciate that. She may be home today, we'll see.
Click to expand...

Hope your partner is home and recovering - I just had my hip replaced recently so I understand how stressful anything to do with hospitals can be.

I searched tb and it appears there is in fact a Burns Owners Club thread Burns Owners Club (started in 2014) but as a poster stated; "Well, this must set the record for slowest and smallest club on TB." I sorta' understand but at the same time it's hard to discount what James Ormston Burns contributed to the world of electric guitars/basses in the halcyon days of R&R that was the 1960's. I liken his quirky designs to Danelectro's similarly left-of-center offerings. They weren't Fender, Gibson, Guild, Gretch or Rickenbacker - but they both made their mark producing really unique guitars/basses. I'll probably post the finished product on the Burns Owners Club thread, but I was hoping for something more in depth... oh well, I guess I'll hang at the Burns fb group for 'Burns love'...
 
#88
Here's a cool colour - I think it was originally pale blue, like a Sonic Blue with times amber'ing. White pg though...

578186487_o.jpg

Here is an example of the engraved neck plate I've been speaking of. It's plastic like a pg - the structural screws that attach the neck are underneath.
sgcxqz3mbdf7i26tsr7o.jpg

Note "Nylon Tapewound" strings from the factory. One step from the commonly used "flats" installed on all basses in '63
1963-04-crescendo.jpg

And another shot of the string-mute (and bridge cover) on a Vista Sonic.
P6290012.jpg

And check this out - a Vista Sonic bass from 1964 with a whammy-bar! This had to be the first bass whammy-bar! Not only that, but the bridge cover has a port for it to emerge from! This is what made Jim Burns legionary.
P6290006.jpg

cool colour too... note Burns amp - very cool.
P6290005.jpg
 
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#89
My Ampeg/Burns Jazz Split Sound guitar has a whammy like that coming through the cover. I'll tell you right now, you find it's not as cool as it seems as soon as you have to change the strings. You have to remove the arm, then the cover, beforehand.
 
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#90
farace said:
My Ampeg/Burns Jazz Split Sound guitar has a whammy like that coming through the cover. I'll tell you right now, you find it's not as cool as it seems as soon as you have to change the strings. You have to remove the arm, then the cover, beforehand.
Click to expand...

Well yes, I don't think anyone would argue that it was practical! :D ...but it is cool, especially for a bass where you didn't change strings often!
 
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#91
JIO said:
Here's a cool colour - I think it was originally pale blue, like a Sonic Blue with times amber'ing. White pg though...

View attachment 3724967
Here is an example of the engraved neck plate I've been speaking of. It's plastic like a pg - the structural screws that attach the neck are underneath.
View attachment 3724971
Note "Nylon Tapewound" strings from the factory. One step from the commonly used "flats" installed on all basses in '63
View attachment 3724976
And another shot of the string-mute (and bridge cover) on a Vista Sonic.
View attachment 3725088
And check this out - a Vista Sonic bass from 1964 with a whammy-bar! This had to be the first bass whammy-bar! Not only that, but the bridge cover has a port for it to emerge from! This is what made Jim Burns legionary.
View attachment 3725089
cool colour too... note Burns amp - very cool.
View attachment 3725094
Click to expand...
Digging the red and black.
 
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#92
Fender_Bender said:
Digging the red and black.
Click to expand...

It's like Fenders 'Race Red' that the first Jaguar basses came in. White plastic tuner paddles too! (most all I've seen so far are black) That bass must be really valuable - I can't imagine there were many like it made then. All kinda awesome!
 
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#94
wraub said:
I was just going to post that it looks like the Race Red on my Squier PJ... ;)
Click to expand...

Yep - the only redder red out there is Fenders more recent Sonic Red - practically Day-Glo.

Pat Wilkins shot SR on my Deadlybird II in matte/satin - nearly glows in the dark! It's less 'pink' and more high-chroma red in person.
fullsizeoutput_12f0.jpeg

If I choose to do a relic treatment on the Vista Sonic - white/black/red (this example looking more Fiesta Red) would be bitchin'.
fullsizeoutput_16f1.jpeg
 
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#95
Found these pics of the infamous Burns truss-rod adjuster. (at least the exposed part) It is a geared system that required a special (cranking) tool, which I'll need to fabricate for the bass on it's way here. I just hope it's not frozen, but if I have to take the fb off and free it up - so be it. I hope mine looks like this example - the male coupling end is in good condition.

19143200_1997616870466245_6392006898700179862_o.jpg

This is what is under the engraved neck plate. Other than the 4 neck screws - there is the off-set cavity for tr tool access, and a tilt-neck bolt - and quite a large one at that!
19095448_1997616650466267_2205056521596708692_o.jpg

Pretty economical - a standard slotted bolt with an additional slot cut at the threaded end for adjustment into a threaded insert. More substantial than what usually is used for such.
19106079_1997616833799582_6485142977087218944_n.jpg
 
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#96
A suitable truss rod tool is a cinch to fabricate. I took a short (maybe 5") length of stout chromed tubing (maybe like the supply line for a toilet), probably 1/4" in diameter, bent it into an L shape, and squeezed one end just flat enough to accommodate the flatted shaft of the gearbox. Not as elegant as the factory tool, but a helluva lot cheaper (just found that Burns sells them for £45), and it works just fine. If I can figure out where mine is (probably in one of the instrument cases) I'll take a picture. Also, FWIW, somewhere online is a detailed page showing the gearbox, being rehabbed I think, or at least exposed.

Just checked, this might be the page I was thinking of:

Link Removed

I just discovered that Gretsch used the Burns gearbox, too. Here's someone's repair thread:

Burns Gear-O-Matic Truss Rod - MIMF
 
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#97
farace said:
A suitable truss rod tool is a cinch to fabricate. I took a short (maybe 5") length of stout chromed tubing (maybe like the supply line for a toilet), probably 1/4" in diameter, bent it into an L shape, and squeezed one end just flat enough to accommodate the flatted shaft of the gearbox. Not as elegant as the factory tool, but a helluva lot cheaper (just found that Burns sells them for £45), and it works just fine. If I can figure out where mine is (probably in one of the instrument cases) I'll take a picture. Also, FWIW, somewhere online is a detailed page showing the gearbox, being rehabbed I think, or at least exposed.

Just checked, this might be the page I was thinking of:

Link Removed

I just discovered that Gretsch used the Burns gearbox, too. Here's someone's repair thread:

Burns Gear-O-Matic Truss Rod - MIMF
Click to expand...

Awesome! Thanks for this! Pretty much like a tuner gear but smaller. I'm glad to see it's able to be taken apart. WCS would be if the male shaft coupling end was mangled - would just mean more work to rectify it. I did read that Baldwin bought Gretsch in the late '60s and that there was some Burns overlap there. Do you have a pic of the Burns adjustment tool? The conversion to a hex-head female adjustment in your link is very sensible. Depending on the status of the one in mine will determine if such is needed. I do know someone who could do that.
open gear box.jpg
 
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#99

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