Proof that the neck has a big impact in tone.

[GodPlayedBass]

In my opinion its just like a drumset. If you hit two snair drums made from different woods, they will both sound different even though they still sound like snairs. Bass is the same way. The change in tone is subtle but clearly noticeable. I saw a video about this that a luthier made.

 

[Gilmourisgod]

Are the two.necks identical internally? Same trussrod type, length, and material? Are the fret heights and widths absolutely identical? Im guessing no in both cases, which makes the test an approximation at best. Since each piece of wood is essentially unique, I dont think its possible to do a real A/B with wood necks. Anecdotally, every Steinberger L2 i played back in the Day sounded exactly the same, those neck/body assemblies were cast in the same molds using identical materials. They were laid up like a fiberglass hull, with layers of carbon fiber material.and resin, so i suppose you could argue that the "hand" of the person doing the work could somehow translate, if so I couldnt hear it. I agree that the neck has more influence on tone than the body, but quantifying that, and drawing repeatable conclusions, seems virtually impossible with all wood basses. You are in good company anyway, these tonewood debates come up on a regular basis, and the results are like Politics or Religion, in the end it just comes down to belief.

 

[JTE]

They used to teach this thing in schools called "science" where people learned things like scientific method, experimental techniques, controlling variables, etc.

 

[mongo2]

They used to teach this thing in schools called "science" where people learned things like scientific method, experimental techniques, controlling variables, etc.

I worked over 20 years as a test engineer, developer and director so I have to agree that science stuff comes in handy...math can come in handy too.

 

[Spirit of Ox]

Here you say "I believe" but the title says "proof"... which is it?

As others have said, I'd take the "proof" lightly, you cannot just compare two basses and conclude one part was what made the difference.

But, I think your conclusion is probably correct in some way. It seems like the sound does tend to "follow the neck", something that I've read many times, and partially confirmed myself. I'm hesitant to say "wood X sounds like this, and wood Y sounds like that" because there is so much variation, but there are some general tendencies on average.

However, what it ultimately boils down to are the cliches. Try before you buy; you cannot tell what the bass sounds like from the specs. Find the right strings for the bass; the right strings can often help with the perceived deficiencies. It's all in the fingers; with some changes to your technique, you can make a bigger difference.

There is no scientific proof that neck makes all difference in my test but it has to be the biggest factor. Keep in mind that I'm pretty much comparing a Warmoth steel reinforced neck to a thin Geddy lee neck. The pickups are both the ones that come stock in the Geddy lee so I can't see them sounding much different.

 

[mongo2]

There is no scientific proof that neck makes all difference in my test but it has to be the biggest factor. Keep in mind that I'm pretty much comparing a Warmoth steel reinforced neck to a thin Geddy lee neck. The pickups are both the ones that come stock in the Geddy lee so I can't see them sounding much different.

The issue is multiple variables were changed which calls the conclusion into question. Specifically, which variable or combination of variables is responsible for the result leading to the conclusion?

 

[Guitalia]

Plenty of people have reported trying out many different guitars or basses of the exact same model---with identical necks, fretboards, electronics, etc.---before settling on one that sounded and felt better than the others. Given that even supposedly identical instruments can sound so different, the OP's conclusion isn't very convincing.

 

[-Asdfgh-]

Plenty of people have reported trying out many different guitars or basses of the exact same model---with identical necks, fretboards, electronics, etc.---before settling on one that sounded and felt better than the others. Given that even supposedly identical instruments can sound so different, the OP's conclusion isn't very convincing.

There are also odd psychological effects, such as the EQ given to a bass affecting how the action feels, so there might also be effects in the opposite direction. Even colour can affect the perception of unrelated qualities of things in other areas, or even the price can affect the perceived quality even if it is simply the same item relabelled. So you have to do a lot more in terms of study and amass a lot of data to see if there is an effect that can be measured, let alone trying to determine if there is an explanation. This is not to say there might not be an effect, but the OP's test is not sufficiently controlled as to be able to demonstrate it.

 

[-Asdfgh-]

There is no scientific proof that neck makes all difference in my test but it has to be the biggest factor. Keep in mind that I'm pretty much comparing a Warmoth steel reinforced neck to a thin Geddy lee neck. The pickups are both the ones that come stock in the Geddy lee so I can't see them sounding much different.

That levels the playing field a bit, perhaps, but the pickups in Geddy's original bass were the ones that came stock in a 1972 Jazz but sounded special . However, I thought they'd changed the pickup specifications in the Geddy Lee signature bass a couple of times, so I am not sure if those are a constant factor. With modern winding techniques they should at least be pretty consistent.

 

[-Asdfgh-]

They used to teach this thing in schools called "science" where people learned things like scientific method, experimental techniques, controlling variables, etc.

If anything, absent programmes on advanced maths, as I understand it they teach more statistics now than they used to. However, probably not enough. I used to be a sort of scientist and the statistics required to design and interpret experiments is something I found challenging as it is too easy, even with the best intentions, allow confounding factors in.

Here there are various approaches that could work, the first being control for as many variables as possible (just neck change, everything else the same, test the torque on all the screws, automated plucking machine, fourier transform of output). Another is control for nothing and let people supply subjective data on the perceived sound of instruments, providing information on their construction and then do a clustering against those variables to see if all maple instruments cluster around a sound description. The problem here is people listening with their eyes and a lack of common definition for labelling sounds. Or you could do a principal components analysis, but the same caveats apply.

In the above, the former requires a lot of test equipment ($$$) and the latter needs a lot of honest input data and a data scientist to do the work.

 

[Cutter8]

There is no scientific proof that neck makes all difference in my test but it has to be the biggest factor.

Wrong. It doesn’t have to be the biggest factor, it likely isn’t, and simply continuing to insist that you believe something doesn’t make it fact. Just the roasted vs unroasted body woods or the difference between types of maple used for the body could easily be bigger factors. The only thing you have offered proof of in this thread is that you are dogmatic.

 

[Gilmourisgod]

Generating Scientific proof would require virtually identical test objects, which isn’t possible with wood. It’s like a vaccine trial, you might be able to predict a 90% efficacy, with a lot of variation in the last 10%, because human beings are genetically unique. If it were easy to demonstrate entirely predictable effects of different combinations of neck, body, strings, hardware, and electronics, somebody would have done it a long time ago. Every attempt I’ve seen here on TB and elsewhere has had some uncertainty or flaw in the methodology. You can arrive at generalities that people might accept, like “maple boards sound brighter than rosewood boards”, and then somebody will produce an example of one disproving it as universal. Most people have had the experience of picking up two visually identical mass-produced basses in a store, and one just sounds better, or feels better. That wasn’t an intentional result by the builder, they are just pulling parts off an assembly line and bolting them together. Anybody who has actually played a few of the high-dollar “vintage” pre-cbs Fenders, for instance, can tell you that they are no more or less likely to sound great than a bass produced yesterday. Meh.

 

[-Asdfgh-]

Generating Scientific proof would require virtually identical test objects, which isn’t possible with wood.

You can still have 1000 necks with maple boards, 1000 with rosewood and an objective measure of tone and cluster the data (it would be 1D in this case). You'd get 2 clusters, potentially, or even after 1000 you might not be able to statistically separate them. As long as it's a fair sample of the two types of neck it's fine.

 

[Dirk Diggler]

This isn't proof, it's a hypothesis, now you have to prove it.
At least record the perceived differences so we can help judge ourselves.

And I agree a more scientific approach is needed, spectrum analysis could indeed help
to prove your hypothesis.

What no comparison to CF necks?

The scientific method attempts to minimize bias, sorry to say but your test is completely subjective and biased.
Good luck,
Dirk

 

[Jay2U]

This can only be tested if the necks are swapped.

 

[hennessybass]

I know it's a hot debate, but I am a believer that wood matters, and also that the neck has a HUGE impact on the tone. Not so sure about different types of wood, as much as each individual piece of wood... two pieces of ash can sound totally different from each other.

I think the mass of the neck makes a huge difference. Wide and flat // narrow and deep - how much wood is there in addition to what wood.

The reason I believe this is because I have two fender basses - I put the same set of new strings on them, and play them unplugged.
It's not the pickups, it's not the strings, it's not he tone pots, it's not the player... same body wood, same bridge, same nut... and they sound TOTALLY different.

The major characteristics of the basses when played unplugged also come across when they are amplified.

 

[Eidolon0274]

I did a similar test recently!

My basses are:

Warwick thumb 6 with Schaller tuners
Precision NOS 1960 with fender stock tuners

Only difference is the tuners! And some other minor details...


Both basses have neck bolts made of the same alloy but the Warwick bolts are 1/16 longer making it much brighter by comparison.

 

[Cutter8]

I did a similar test recently!

My basses are:

Warwick thumb 6 with Schaller tuners
Precision NOS 1960 with fender stock tuners

Only difference is the tuners! And some other minor details...


Both basses have neck bolts made of the same alloy but the Warwick bolts are 1/16 longer making it much brighter by comparison.

That pretty much nails it!

 

[marchone]

I’ll bet Fender isn’t interested in a definitive answer. They sell too many of each type to upset the sales cart.

I’ve certainly been conditioned to expect a rosewood fingerboard to be a warmer fuller tone. But my experience says strings are far more effective in changing the tone.

Since I have a Telecaster and a Precision, both with maple necks, the next logical acquisition would be a Jazz Bass with a rosewood fingerboard.

Now there’s a rationalization.

 

[Dragan]

I just did a really accurate A/B comparison on the neck affecting the overall tone of a bass
My basses are stock 2016 Geddy Lee Jazz bass.
2009 mim body with Warmoth roasted maple jazz neck (standard profile), Kluson high mass bridge, 2019 mim Geddy lee pickups, and both have fresh DR Fat beams.
Comparing the tone only with the front pickup since the Geddy has 70s spacing and the custom doesnt.
The Geddy is noticably brighter and snappier and the custom is darker, and woodier sounding with more low mids. The sustain was about the same but of course the Warmoth has no dead spots and a more even tone compared to the Geddy lee.
So with two basses with the same pickups, strings, body wood, and similar bridge, it seems like the neck has a big impact of tone. More than I would've thought.
Can anyone else elaborate on this?

That is a ( hopefully ) well known fact