Pros and 'Unusual' Basses.

[Woodsbass]

Handz Solow - Not trying to be rude at all, but are you typing on a phone? If so, you may want to turn on autocorrect or just spend a bit more time re-reading your posts before hitting submit. I've been just skimming your responses because I can't make it through them. Some grammar and spelling add a lot to credibility.

As for the issue at hand, it's fairly easy to see why people play Fender so much, what with how easy they are to find (the 3 music stores that are within an hour of me all sell only Fender and Ibanez) and how huge their endorsement deals are, it's almost a no-brainer. I agree with you that what they get from the endorsement (usually just free gear, or discounts on gear, but I guess some probably get compensated to some extent) is a small percentage of what they would get paid in a year, but if they're getting one free bass every year from their deal, that is $1500 that they don't have to spend themselves.

Fender is NOT the best of it's type though. Pick up a Sandberg for 5 seconds, or a Lull for 2 and you'll see why. Attention to detail, pre-amp, pickups, all things that are improved in what you call *copies* over the original Fender counterpart. I own two Fender basses, a 4 string Jazz and a 5 string Jazz that I own because you've gotta have a Fender type bass and I don't like them enough to spend the money for a clone. If the Jazz bass was my favorite instrument, I wouldn't be playing the Fender version of it. I would get something far improved over it.

Personally, I love the MM Stingray, but I didn't even get the *classic* version of that either. I own an HS (probably the least common of the Stingray pickup arrangements) because that was THE tone I was looking for in a bass. There are always things to improve on with instruments, and it's somewhat strange to think that it's impossible that they've been improved on since the 50's.

 

[Handz Solow]

Handz Solow - Not trying to be rude at all, but are you typing on a phone? If so, you may want to turn on autocorrect or just spend a bit more time re-reading your posts before hitting submit. I've been just skimming your responses because I can't make it through them. Some grammar and spelling add a lot to credibility.

As for the issue at hand, it's fairly easy to see why people play Fender so much, what with how easy they are to find (the 3 music stores that are within an hour of me all sell only Fender and Ibanez) and how huge their endorsement deals are, it's almost a no-brainer. I agree with you that what they get from the endorsement (usually just free gear, or discounts on gear, but I guess some probably get compensated to some extent) is a small percentage of what they would get paid in a year, but if they're getting one free bass every year from their deal, that is $1500 that they don't have to spend themselves.

Fender is NOT the best of it's type though. Pick up a Sandberg for 5 seconds, or a Lull for 2 and you'll see why. Attention to detail, pre-amp, pickups, all things that are improved in what you call *copies* over the original Fender counterpart. I own two Fender basses, a 4 string Jazz and a 5 string Jazz that I own because you've gotta have a Fender type bass and I don't like them enough to spend the money for a clone. If the Jazz bass was my favorite instrument, I wouldn't be playing the Fender version of it. I would get something far improved over it.

Personally, I love the MM Stingray, but I didn't even get the *classic* version of that either. I own an HS (probably the least common of the Stingray pickup arrangements) because that was THE tone I was looking for in a bass. There are always things to improve on with instruments, and it's somewhat strange to think that it's impossible that they've been improved on since the 50's.

I think you would have to agree that no one has really come up with a better overall design than the jazz bass.
From the classic lines to the single coil growl. I think that's why all of the top boutique builders sell more jazz clones than anything else. I applaud companies like fedora who at least come up with their own shapes etc.but then you'll see that p split coil and Leos in there too! My appologies for my poor grammar. Unfortunately my formal education has been rather limited.

 

[Woodsbass]

I think you would have to agree that no one has really come up with a better overall design than the jazz bass.
From the classic lines to the single coil growl. I think that's why all of the top boutique builders sell more jazz clones than anything else. I applaud companies like fedora who at least come up with their own shapes etc.but then you'll see that p split coil and Leos in there too! My appologies for my poor grammar. Unfortunately my formal education has been rather limited.

No appologies needed, I didn't mean to offend and I absolutely didn't mean to comment on your level of education. What you just posted was just much easier to read, thank you! I agree that there isn't many DESIGNS (as in original designs) that can compare to the classics like the Jazz, the P, the Stingray and the Ric 4003. Leo Fender was a visionary who had so many great ideas for instruments and truely paved the way for the modern bass world, but I also think you can agree that while his DESIGNS haven't been surpassed, the way in which his designs were carried out have been improved upon.

I have almost no interest in newer body shapes, except a very few select singlecut designs, but have to say that modern takes on vintage styled instruments do tend to be improved versions of the original. It it like you said earlier, the Fender P bass and Jazz bass are the Fords, while the boutiques are Vettes. No one is saying that the Ford can't do it's job and do it very, very well. It just can't compare to a Corvette!

 

[Handz Solow]

I think you would have to agree that no one has really come up with a better overall design than the jazz bass.
From the classic lines to the single coil growl. I think that's why all of the top boutique builders sell more jazz clones than anything else. I applaud companies like fedora who at least come up with their own shapes etc.but then you'll see that p split coil and Leos in there too! My appologies for my poor grammar. Unfortunately my formal education has been rather limited.

I would love a stingray myself. I think they have their own look and vibe where to me g&l s look too much like Fenders with the headstock altered and various pick up options and unique electronics.

 

[Woodsbass]

I would love a stingray myself. I think they have their own look and vibe where to me g&l s look too much like Fenders with the headstock altered and various pick up options and unique electronics.

I'm in the same boat. I have no interest in owning a G&L, but I can acknowledge the fact that they are very nice instruments with alot of improvements over the original designs that Fender created. Whether they are as *good* as a Jass bass or P-bass is very subjective, it's all up to personal preference! While I pick up my HS Stingray and think it's the greatest HS type bass there is, there are some that would prefer the Warwick or G&L variation of that pickup configuration.

I can respect your opinion, and it's good to see someone who respects and admires the engineering and thought that Leo put into his original designs as much as I do. Like I said, while the Fender designs aren't my personal favorite instruments, they sure do kick some major booty.

 

[Handz Solow]

No appologies needed, I didn't mean to offend and I absolutely didn't mean to comment on your level of education. What you just posted was just much easier to read, thank you! I agree that there isn't many DESIGNS (as in original designs) that can compare to the classics like the Jazz, the P, the Stingray and the Ric 4003. Leo Fender was a visionary who had so many great ideas for instruments and truely paved the way for the modern bass world, but I also think you can agree that while his DESIGNS haven't been surpassed, the way in which his designs were carried out have been improved upon. I agree but I'd still take an original stack knob jazz over just about any custom out there.

I have almost no interest in newer body shapes, except a very few select singlecut designs, but have to say that modern takes on vintage styled instruments do tend to be improved versions of the original. It it like you said earlier, the Fender P bass and Jazz bass are the Fords, while the boutiques are Vettes. No one is saying that the Ford can't do it's job and do it very, very well. It just can't compare to a Corvette!

 

[OldCityBassman]

I've wondered if the G&L sound is the same or better than the Fender. I haven't played a G&L so I don't know.

So are all pro musician's paid by the companies whose gear they are using? Is Geddy paid by Fender or does he just really love the sound he gets from them? It seems whatever they would pay would be chump change to him, but money is money.

 

[theinfamous]

Fender is only visible because more professionals have been seen playing them than any other brand at least as far as the bass goes. That is professionals CHOOSE them. No ones getting rich from Fender endorsements.

This is a narrow minded statement. It is more than probable that every single artist with a fender signature model is getting a substantial amount of money for every guitar sold. That is part of the reason they cost more than a standard model. The exact amount they get probably varies, and is something that you're likely never going to hear due to contractual issues.

One thing that I haven't seen mentioned yet is the fact that for a while, Fender was one of the very few companies that had their act together as far as producing quality electric instruments goes. A lot of older artists began their careers with Fenders as the ONLY logical choice. Therefore, these older, high profile artists chose Fender by default and never changed because change takes energy and effort.

 

[WoodyG3]

No one can touch Fenders history of classic instruments with killer tone. From Jimmy to Jamerson Clapton to yngwvie ,Marcus
Geddy all put it down with Fender instruments.

Okay, stop beating around the bush. Do you like Fenders or not!?

I think you would have to agree that no one has really come up with a better overall design than the jazz bass.
From the classic lines to the single coil growl. I think that's why all of the top boutique builders sell more jazz clones than anything else. I applaud companies like fedora who at least come up with their own shapes etc.but then you'll see that p split coil and Leos in there too! My appologies for my poor grammar. Unfortunately my formal education has been rather limited.

The Jazz Bass is a thing of beauty, but I do think Fender has improved on it through the years. Fender has certainly refined their production process as the years have passed, and most people would agree that the finish, hardware, and electronics have all been improved by Fender.

The Jazz Bass style has also been tinkered with to offer diversity. Other manufacturers have taken the Jazz bass design and refined the body shape and size, neck dimensions, electronics, and hardware to meet the desires of many players. The G&L JB2 is basically a refined Jazz Bass. I happen to like the Fender version better myself, but Leo had a reason for making the JB2. Sadowsky Jazz style basses feature a particular breed of preamp and a particular attention to detail that isn't possible with a mass produced bass. Lakland has made a Jazz style bass that many prefer do to a similar attention to detail. My Carvin LB70 is basically a Jazz with 24 frets, neck through construction, tilt back headstock, and a preamp. I prefer it to a Fender JB, but I certainly wouldn't expect everyone to.

A bass just doesn't have to have Fender on the headstock to be the best for any particular player. Everyone doesn't need to play a P, J or Stingray, either. Diversity is a good thing.

 

[wvbass]

I think you would have to agree that no one has really come up with a better overall design than the jazz bass.

I don't think anybody would have to agree with that at all. I'm not sure anyone has made a more popular design, and I'm not sure you can quantitatively determine that one design is better than another. I'm pretty sure all the Soundgear, Stingray, Spector, Dingwall, etc., players would probably find that statement more than a little silly.

 

[Handz Solow]

I don't think anybody would have to agree with that at all. I'm not sure anyone has made a more popular design, and I'm not sure you can quantitatively determine that one design is better than another. I'm pretty sure all the Soundgear, Stingray, Spector, Dingwall, etc., players would probably find that statement more than a little silly.

Those companies all make jazz bass style basses. They barrow from or directly copy what they can legally( everything but the headstock really) so they must admire and respect the original design and engineering as I do.

 

[Handz Solow]

Okay, stop beating around the bush. Do you like Fenders or not!?



The Jazz Bass is a thing of beauty, but I do think Fender has improved on it through the years. Fender has certainly refined their production process as the years have passed, and most people would agree that the finish, hardware, and electronics have all been improved by Fender.

The Jazz Bass style has also been tinkered with to offer diversity. Other manufacturers have taken the Jazz bass design and refined the body shape and size, neck dimensions, electronics, and hardware to meet the desires of many players. The G&L JB2 is basically a refined Jazz Bass. I happen to like the Fender version better myself, but Leo had a reason for making the JB2. Sadowsky Jazz style basses feature a particular breed of preamp and a particular attention to detail that isn't possible with a mass produced bass. Lakland has made a Jazz style bass that many prefer do to a similar attention to detail. My Carvin LB70 is basically a Jazz with 24 frets, neck through construction, tilt back headstock, and a preamp. I prefer it to a Fender JB, but I certainly wouldn't expect everyone to.

A bass just doesn't have to have Fender on the headstock to be the best for any particular player. Everyone doesn't need to play a P, J or Stingray, either. Diversity is a good thing.

I agree I think there are many beautiful, functional designs made by other companies ( I love my eb 3 !)
I'd love a fedora. I think it's cool that the original 60+ year old design is still produced and used in many styles of music regardless
Of the brand. I'm just partial to Fenders as far as jazz basses go.

 

[wvbass]

Those companies all make jazz bass style basses. They barrow from or directly copy what they can legally( everything but the headstock really) so they must admire and respect the original design and engineering as I do.

That has nothing to do with the statement of yours that I quoted. You said that the jazz bass is the "best overall design."

And...There is a Music Man Jazz Bass? What does ALL mean to you?

And...Fodera. A fedora is the thing in my avatar.

 

[Handz Solow]

This is a narrow minded statement. It is more than probable that every single artist with a fender signature model is getting a substantial amount of money for every guitar sold. That is part of the reason they cost more than a standard model. The exact amount they get probably varies, and is something that you're likely never going to hear due to contractual issues.

One thing that I haven't seen mentioned yet is the fact that for a while, Fender was one of the very few companies that had their act together as far as producing quality electric instruments goes. A lot of older artists began their careers with Fenders as the ONLY logical choice. Therefore, these older, high profile artists chose Fender by default and never changed because change takes energy and effort.

And that is one of the reasons many of us stick with Fender. They are tools with a large network to get parts, repairs and replcement instruments. This is a factor to many working professionals. Don't fault them for being accessible.

 

[gjohnson441496]

No appologies needed, I didn't mean to offend and I absolutely didn't mean to comment on your level of education. What you just posted was just much easier to read, thank you! I agree that there isn't many DESIGNS (as in original designs) that can compare to the classics like the Jazz, the P, the Stingray and the Ric 4003. Leo Fender was a visionary who had so many great ideas for instruments and truely paved the way for the modern bass world, but I also think you can agree that while his DESIGNS haven't been surpassed, the way in which his designs were carried out have been improved upon.

I have almost no interest in newer body shapes, except a very few select singlecut designs, but have to say that modern takes on vintage styled instruments do tend to be improved versions of the original. It it like you said earlier, the Fender P bass and Jazz bass are the Fords, while the boutiques are Vettes. No one is saying that the Ford can't do it's job and do it very, very well. It just can't compare to a Corvette!

The price difference is about the same also, however I would rather compare the Fender to a Toyota instead of a Ford, because Toyota's are dependable and will last for years as will/has Fender guitars.

As been stated in previous threads, for the most part, famous professionals (country, rock, blues) seem to play what they can get their hands on readily... mostly Fenders. Other genres, jazz and gospel in particular, tend to go with boutique/custom basses for a unique genre sound. Most gospel bass players use 5 and 6 stringed instruments and MusicMan basses are very qualified in that area. Although, I wouldn't consider MM a boutique/custom instrument. They are just more expensive than Fenders when purchased new.

I think professionals care about what they play, but I seriously doubt that they pontificate or scrutinize pickups, pots, weight, vintage or a whole host of details like we do here on Talk Bass. It seems to me that TB'ers tend to be fascinated by the instrument. I wonder how well a "Talk SongWriting" website would go over with this crowd?

 

[gjohnson441496]

That has nothing to do with the statement of yours that I quoted. You said that the jazz bass is the "best overall design."

And...There is a Music Man Jazz Bass? What does ALL mean to you?

And...Fodera. A fedora is the thing in my avatar.

LOL

 

[Handz Solow]

That has nothing to do with the statement of yours that I quoted. You said that the jazz bass is the "best overall design."

And...There is a Music Man Jazz Bass? What does ALL mean to you?

And...Fodera. A fedora is the thing in my avatar.

That has nothing to do with the statement of yours that I quoted. You said that the jazz bass is the "best overall design."

And...There is a Music Man Jazz Bass? What does ALL mean to you?

And...Fodera. A fedora is the thing in my avatar.[/QUOTE
I said I don't think anyone's come up with a " better. In my opinion it is the most influential and most duplicated today.
I believe there are more high end jazz clones than p bass clones. No mm doesn't make a jazz bass copy but
Are extensions of the original solid body double cutaway fender designs .

 

[wvbass]

@Handz Solow: Yes, jazz basses are nice basses. There are lots of nice basses out there. Every bass with close to a 34" scale has some degree of design influence from Leo Fender's work. To think that NOBODY has improved on an existing, quality design in over fifty years is silly. However, that doesn't take anything away from the jazz bass; it is a great bass.

Heck, strap locks are an improvement to the design. Leo didn't do that. The quick release bridge is an improvement. Leo didn't do that. How on earth can you say that nobody has improved on this design?

 

[Handz Solow]

@Handz Solow: Yes, jazz basses are nice basses. There are lots of nice basses out there. Every bass with close to a 34" scale has some degree of design influence from Leo Fender's work. To think that NOBODY has improved on an existing, quality design in over fifty years is silly. However, that doesn't take anything away from the jazz bass; it is a great bass.

Heck, strap locks are an improvement to the design. Leo didn't do that. The quick release bridge is an improvement. Leo didn't do that. How on earth can you say that nobody has improved on this design?

Those are very small insignificant improvements which have nothing to do with the sound , ergonomics or style of the instrument.
You can take a stock 60"s jazz bass and use it as is and it will compete with anything out there .

 

[Handz Solow]

Those are very small insignificant improvements which have nothing to do with the sound , ergonomics or style of the instrument.
You can take a stock 60"s jazz bass and use it as is and it will compete with anything out there .

I didn't say there haunt been any improvements. I said I don't believe anyone has come up with a " better " overall design.
And I think it is the most duplicated by both cheap import companies as well as high end builders like Sadowsky,
Lull, Sandberg etc.,