Pros and 'Unusual' Basses.

[Handz Solow]

@Handz Solow: Yes, jazz basses are nice basses. There are lots of nice basses out there. Every bass with close to a 34" scale has some degree of design influence from Leo Fender's work. To think that NOBODY has improved on an existing, quality design in over fifty years is silly. However, that doesn't take anything away from the jazz bass; it is a great bass.

Heck, strap locks are an improvement to the design. Leo didn't do that. The quick release bridge is an improvement. Leo didn't do that. How on earth can you say that nobody has improved on this design?

Those are very small insignificant
improvements which have nothing to do with the sound , ergonomics or style of the
instrument.

I'm not sure how a quick release bridge is an improvement.
Doesn't seem to have caught on.l
You can take a stock 60"s jazz bass and use it as is and it will compete with anything out there .

 

[Handz Solow]

The price difference is about the same also, however I would rather compare the Fender to a Toyota instead of a Ford, because Toyota's are dependable and will last for years as will/has Fender guitars.

As been stated in previous threads, for the most part, famous professionals (country, rock, blues) seem to play what they can get their hands on readily... mostly Fenders. Other genres, jazz and gospel in particular, tend to go with boutique/custom basses for a unique genre sound. Most gospel bass players use 5 and 6 stringed instruments and MusicMan basses are very qualified in that area. Although, I wouldn't consider MM a boutique/custom instrument. They are just more expensive than Fenders when purchased new.

I think professionals care about what they play, but I seriously doubt that they pontificate or scrutinize pickups, pots, weight, vintage or a whole host of details like we do here on Talk Bass. It seems to me that TB'ers tend to be fascinated by the instrument. I wonder how well a "Talk SongWriting" website would go over with this crowd?

I agree I think there are many pros who know little about the technical specs etc
Of their equipment. I know some people can't believe victor Wooten plugs his fedora into a boss multiple effects unit. They wish he used a bunch of boutique pedals like they do.
Id rather be complimented on my playing than that elusive perfect tone,

 

[wvbass]

@Handz Solow: Of course the quick release bridge is an improvement. It doesn't have to have "caught on" for it to be an improvement, even though I'm not sure how you are defining "caught on." The quick release bridge performs exactly the same function as a regular bridge, but it makes it faster and easier to change the strings. How is that not an improvement on an existing design?

As for being "small and insignificant," that isn't what you said. You said nobody has done anything better.

A 60's jazz bass is a solid design and is usable today. I will grant that it is a widely copied design, and a starting point for many other designs. I just don't see how you can think nothing anyone else has done is in any way better? Even Leo thought that he improved on this design when he made the L-2000.

I'm glad you like jazz basses. They are great. There are other instruments out there that many prefer to jazz basses. And non of this has anything to do with why Fender dominates the basses you see on TV. They dominate at least in part due to a large marketing effort on their part to do so.

 

[AMJBASS]

I am not a "big name" pro, however I do play on a full time basis(all of my income comes from gigging). I've owned more basses than I care to admit including high end basses from Fodera, F-Bass, Modulus, US Lakland, etc, and I almost always come back to Fender. For what I do they work in every single situation studio or live, theater pits, or bar gigs. I know even in a tough room I can take out my P-Bass and get great sound without having a million knobs to tweak. There is also another factor that comes in to play... image. There are some situations that you are just expected to show up with a Fender(though I think a high end Fender style bass is also fine such as a Sadowsky, Lull, Aleva, etc.). Its not like you have to take those gigs, but if you want to play them... well... you know what you need.

 

[theinfamous]

And that is one of the reasons many of us stick with Fender. They are tools with a large network to get parts, repairs and replcement instruments. This is a factor to many working professionals. Don't fault them for being accessible.

I don't fault them for being accessible. My point was that, for a while, they were the only logical choice for an electric bass, so they became the default "pro" bass. You're arguing that no one does it better even now, and that most pros use copies of this original design because it is the best.

Everyone else seems to be saying that yes, Fender does make quality instruments, but there are plenty of other manufacturers out there who make a great and different product. To me, Fender is like vanilla ice cream. Good, but just kind of a bland standard. You seem to be arguing that vanilla is best because that is what all other ice cream flavors are based on. This is a difficult argument to properly support because it is all about OPINION and not fact.

 

[Nephilymbass]

a lot of the reasons have already been stated but one thing I'd like to say is a lot of people like fenders because they are so customizable after you buy it. i mean there's a thousand different aftermarket j and p pickups out there made specifically for fenders. Most pros go for their own sound while still considering what actually fits the band. So instead of exploring different basses they get a fender and try different pickups And other mods.

I've always liked fender 4 strings. Never been a huge fan of their 5s, not saying they are all terrible, but for 5 string my stingray is a great instrument and its another one you see pros using a lot and also has a some fender history.

 

[Handz Solow]

Bol

I'm not being a dink. And I have read page 8, as well as the rest of the thread. And I always circle back around to a P bass (I have at least five right now). However, I am neither foolish nor arrogant enough to presume that nobody has improved upon Leo's original designs.

And I refuse to believe that he doesn't know better than to end a sentence with a comma. He is trolling, and I unfortunately took the bait.

Im basicly reffering to the bodyshape,engeneering (bolt on neck twin single coils etc.

?Im not trying to compose a literary masterpiece. I will try and improve
my punctuation and grammar to appease you.

trolling ?
Really?!

 

[theinfamous]

Aside from adding a preamp
And better materiels and workmanship what big changes
That you can feel or hear have taken place?

Different pickups: humbuckers, noiseless designs, soapbars, whatever... Tone controls that work differently than just a simple "less than all of it" design, neck through construction (which a lot of people seem to prefer) body designs that are better balanced and more comfortable to hold, different combinations of pickups... I could go on and on and on.....

 

[Handz Solow]

Most people seem to be after those vintage 60s and 70s Fender tones
Only enhanced and with more tonal control and less noise.

 

[Handz Solow]

Different pickups: humbuckers, noiseless designs, soapbars, whatever... Tone controls that work differently than just a simple "less than all of it" design, neck through construction (which a lot of people seem to prefer) body designs that are better balanced and more comfortable to hold, different combinations of pickups... I could go on and on and on.....

Different is the key
None of these are better just different. In fact many players and builders are moving back towards
Passive simplicity. Think presentation contra bass
One well placed pick up and a volume knob.
The tone comes from the hands lol

 

[Handz Solow]

Different pickups: humbuckers, noiseless designs, soapbars, whatever... Tone controls that work differently than just a simple "less than all of it" design, neck through construction (which a lot of people seem to prefer) body designs that are better balanced and more comfortable to hold, different combinations of pickups... I could go on and on and on.....

If neck thru was actually "better"
wed all play them. Some of us get all the sustain we need from our bolt ons.

 

[Clef_de_fa]

Those companies all make jazz bass style basses. They barrow from or directly copy what they can legally( everything but the headstock really) so they must admire and respect the original design and engineering as I do.

It never crossed your mind that it is because it sells and they are in to make money ??? Same thing with Fodera puting J and P pickup style in their basses ... because their client asked for it and since they want to make money they do it... kind of obvious.

 

[theinfamous]

Most people seem to be after those vintage 60s and 70s Fender tones
Only enhanced and with more tonal control and less noise.

I'm not. (although I can mimic that sound if needed) Many metal players aren't. A lot of modern jazz players aren't. Paul McCartney played a hofner primarily, (which doesn't sound like a Fender at all IMO) Flea doesn't play with a typical jazz bass tone, Steve Bailey played a Fender only when he had a signature model he was pushing, and even then it sounds pretty different than a vintage tone... Yeah a lot of people play Fenders. A lot of people don't.

Different is the key
None of these are better just different. In fact many players and builders are moving back towards
Passive simplicity. Think presentation contra bass
One well placed pick up and a volume knob.
The tone comes from the hands lol

Why am I arguing with you? This is becoming ridiculous.

 

[Handz Solow]

It never crossed your mind that it is because it sells and they are in to make money ??? Same thing with Fodera puting J and P pickup style in their basses ... because their client asked for it and since they want to make money they do it... kind of obvious.

Isnt that because people want that classic "Fendet" type tone fron thier Fender look a like?

 

[Handz Solow]

I'm not. (although I can mimic that sound if needed) Many metal players aren't. A lot of modern jazz players aren't. Paul McCartney played a hofner primarily, (which doesn't sound like a Fender at all IMO) Flea doesn't play with a typical jazz bass tone, Steve Bailey played a Fender only when he had a signature model he was pushing, and even then it sounds pretty different than a vintage tone... Yeah a lot of people play Fenders. A lot of people don't.



Why am I arguing with you? This is becoming ridiculous.

Im saying that jazz bass style basses are generally engeneered
To sound like vintsge Fender insturments with perhaps more clarity , dynamic range etc..

 

[Clef_de_fa]

Isnt that because people want that classic "Fendet" type tone fron thier Fender look a like?

They know how a P pickup act but it will sound different since it isn't the same construction nor the same pickup. It is the client that is to blame for the Domination of Fender in the mainstream world since they see their hero with one, they want one too so they will "look as cool". Also people are sheep and need to buy the same thing as everyone else to feel like they belong.

If you listen to some metal or jazz fusion you'll see a lot of different basses

 

[Handz Solow]

I'm not. (although I can mimic that sound if needed) Many metal players aren't. A lot of modern jazz players aren't. Paul McCartney played a hofner primarily, (which doesn't sound like a Fender at all IMO) Flea doesn't play with a typical jazz bass tone, Steve Bailey played a Fender only when he had a signature model he was pushing, and even then it sounds pretty different than a vintage tone... Yeah a lot of people play Fenders. A lot of people don't.



Why am I arguing with you? This is becoming ridiculous.

I thought

Some how we all knew that.

They know how a P pickup act but it will sound different since it isn't the same construction nor the same pickup. It is the client that is to blame for the Domination of Fender in the mainstream world since they see their hero with one, they want one too so they will "look as cool". Also people are sheep and need to buy the same thing as everyone else to feel like they belong.

If you listen to some metal or jazz fusion you'll see a lot of different basses

not " look as cool" . Sound as cool.
We are musicians not models.

 

[Clef_de_fa]

I thought


not " look as cool" . Sound as cool.
We are musicians not models.

Dude, mainstream music is all about the image, the actual music is only a marketing thing to sell you an attitude, cloths etc

 

[alexlocurto]

So, arguing and "greenery" aside, for the guys saying I see too many 'ordinary' basses because I don't listen to X,Y, and Z music- I'm making a general statement here. I could list tons of people who play tons of odd basses. But at the end of the day, regardless of your favorite style of music, you have to admit that there are lots of 'ordinary' basses in music. I can't name anyone who plays an MTD 535 off the top of my head, but I can name, like, 50 P Bassers.

 

[Handz Solow]

"Better

Dude, mainstream music is all about the image, the actual music is only a marketing thing to sell you an attitude, cloths etc

I think you will have to agree that a huge portion if the music we all love was recorded on Fender basses.
Whos rock tone sounds "

Dude, mainstream music is all about the image, the actual music is only a marketing thing to sell you an attitude, cloths etc

you have to admit that a huge portion of the music we all love was recorded with Fenders.
I havnt heard a "better" rock tone than geddys or a better slap tone than marcus yet. James Jamerson
Rocco awsome tones for thier styles of music.