Psychology on Cover Charges, why?

[Frontporch]

Nearly by definition, "live" music is a give away. I long ago gave up expecting any pay whatsoever for playing in a band.
The cause is a "digital mentality". Why go out to listen to a live band when you can plug in your ear buds and listen to your favorites on your I-Phone? Why go to a theatre when you can watch all the new and old movie hits on Netflix? Why go to a museum or art exhibit when you can view it on your PC? It is cheaper and you don't have to actually get up and go somewhere. We all have succumbed to this to some degree.

Technology is separating humanity from itself. We no longer gather to entertain or enjoy each others company. We rarely talk face to face so we can see and react to facial expressions or tone of voice. We are one step removed by texting or cell phone.

An example: "back in the day", local musicians would gather, informally, at a certain music shop in town (not a GC) and participate in what we used to call "the hang". This is where we got all of the info about each others bands, good venues, who needed a good bassist (etc), renewed old friendships and met new musicians and laughed our a**es off over shared gig experiences. Consequently we bought strings and straps etc that kept the store in business. That is gone and I miss it. Why go to a music shop when we can buy the bass of our dreams over the internet. I admit their are also good things about digital tech but nearly all of that companionship and communication is relegated to "Facebook".

The "result", IMO, is the death of live music and the value of art per se. Profoundly regrettable.
The " hope" is that we can move through this morass and, again, connect as human beings face to face and bring technology back to it's intended use as a mere informational tool.

The purpose of this post is "not" to cause an argument. It is just my opinion.

 

[Stumbo]

Nearly by definition, "live" music is a give away. I long ago gave up expecting any pay whatsoever for playing in a band.
The cause is a "digital mentality". Why go out to listen to a live band when you can plug in your ear buds and listen to your favorites on your I-Phone? Why go to a theatre when you can watch all the new and old movie hits on Netflix? Why go to a museum or art exhibit when you can view it on your PC? It is cheaper and you don't have to actually get up and go somewhere. We all have succumbed to this to some degree.

Technology is separating humanity from itself. We no longer gather to entertain or enjoy each others company. We rarely talk face to face so we can see and react to facial expressions or tone of voice. We are one step removed by texting or cell phone.

An example: "back in the day", local musicians would gather, informally, at a certain music shop in town (not a GC) and participate in what we used to call "the hang". This is where we got all of the info about each others bands, good venues, who needed a good bassist (etc), renewed old friendships and met new musicians and laughed our a**es off over shared gig experiences. Consequently we bought strings and straps etc that kept the store in business. That is gone and I miss it. Why go to a music shop when we can buy the bass of our dreams over the internet. I admit their are also good things about digital tech but nearly all of that companionship and communication is relegated to "Facebook".

The "result", IMO, is the death of live music and the value of art per se. Profoundly regrettable.
The " hope" is that we can move through this morass and, again, connect as human beings face to face and bring technology back to it's intended use as a mere informational tool.

The purpose of this post is "not" to cause an argument. It is just my opinion.

 

[40Hz]

Starbucks had $22.4 billion dollars in revenue last year.

That is about $6.4 billion (+40%) more than the entire U.S. recorded music industry revenue.

That is about $10.4 billion (+87%) more than the entire U.S live music industry revenue.

All live and recorded music revenue in the USA combined barely exceeded Starbucks revenue.

Revenue of the entire coffee and snack shops industry in the United States exceeded all live and recorded music revenue in the USA combined by about $10 billion

Wow! I had no idea music was such a dismal situation. Touché huh?

 

[fishstix]

I don't like covers when I'm attending a show for a band I don't know will keep me entertained for the specified show length. I'd rather pay for way over priced drinks, the longer I stay the more I pay. If it's a band that I know will keep me the whole night, I don't have a problem paying generous cover.

 

[trevcda]

I did not read the whole thread, but will when I get home.

This is topical for me because I went to see a friend play last weekend. He went earlier to set up, and I rode with his wife, who is a performer, a little later. When we got to the door, there was an unexpected $5 cover charge. She starts complaining about how she is his wife and a musician and I'm his friend and we should be on the list, and etc. etc. I stopped her and just handed over $10. She was probably right in that maybe we should have been on that list, but I never have a problem paying a cover charge for entertainment.

Anytime I've put on an event, I do so with a specific goal in mind, and always charge a cover. Any time I get asked about cover charges, I always tell them it is to pay the entertainment and cover costs. When really pressed, I'll tell them that it's to keep people who are too cheap to pay a cover charge from attending my event. Frankly, if you can't afford to pay the cover charge, I don't want you taking up a seat that could otherwise be occupied by someone who might purchase band merchandise, food, drinks, auction items and other things that when all tallied together, make for a successful event. If five bucks is going to make or break you, stay home.

 

[markjazzbassist]

very simple, with a cover charge you need to bring "fans" so you can make money. if you have little to no following you can guarantee you're making little to nothing to negative. with no cover, there should already be a built in base of bar customers "regulars" who come no matter what (you take the usual 20% bar cut). also you might get some randoms, and have a decent little crowd and you did nothing to promote/market to get people there.

 

[soulman969]

That's a good point.

Part of what influenced my decision is that we are having drink specials for the event. $2 shots $3 bombs and also we're including a $2.50 drink chip with cover.

When I managed a bar for a short while I found this was the best way to handle a cover charge. If the band or bands have a top local reputation and you promote them well then asking for a cover should be acceptable. These days where in the hell can they hear top shelf local talent in a familiar venue for $5? Covering their first drink with chip usually resolves any issues a few of the grumblers may have.

However I would not suggest charging a cover AND raising drink prices. That kind of double dipping is bound to bring on some complaints and hassles for your servers and bar tenders and you really don't want them having to explain or justify it. That's a managers job. JHMO

 

[Biggbass]

in venues where we play the cover charge is collected to pay the band.

 

[Shimmi]

The psychology? People are weird when it comes to money.

Best answer yet

 

[5teven5trummer]

Folk would rather stay home and watch X-Factor or whatever. I'm always happy to pay at the door for a band. Even if the band is crap. It beats being in a place playing modern pop over the speakers!

 

[fhm555]

I notice a lot of people have personal gripes against cover charges. I've even heard people I considered friends complain about venues charging a cover.

For an event I put together I frankly couldn't get around it. In order to pay the bands a fraction of what they deserve our bar would have to A) Charge a $5 cover, or B) Raise drink prices for the night to about 50 cents.

After surveying customers most people hated the idea of a cover charge, and more people couldnt fathom paying more for their drinks. (exaggeration but you get the point.)

As someone who usually only goes to bars to see live music(aside from when I'm bar tending) I never had issue paying cover, its $5 bucks how cheap can you be? Maybe I'm just empathetic from experience playing gigs either way I'm trying my best to reach out to the live music enthusiasts and make this event a success.

Has anyone figured out the weird psychology of people being cheap when it comes to seeing live music?

I'm thinking its either they don't want to "waste" $5 if it turns out they don't like the band. or maybe they are completely ignorant to why?

Way back in another life i was in a blues band that played a local club on the regular and the only way we got paid was the door.
A friend made us up a couple of little signs to hang on the door. The first one was the band name, $2.00 cover, support your local musicians. The second was almost the same, just one small difference.

 

[zon6c-f]

Haven't read whole thread

My 2c

If you pay a 4- piece band $400 or $100 each for 4 sets @45 min and 15 break they may play 40-60 tunes

Club owner can pay DJ $200 who can either play defined sets or stray from list and instantly download individual requests from audience whereas it's sometimes a bad bet to expect a band to take obscure requests and perform them on the fly

Not that I like the current state or live gigs but I don't blame club owners either

Live bands need to bring IT to the business table and have a following / crowd That's a tall order but we have to be better or we will all have to play for tip jar

Best bet to make decent side $$ as a musician in USA is still
Private clubs whose clientele are members and usually loyal to That club

 

[Maryvillebass]

Haha... i can't tell you the last time i saw a local band put on a show worth $5.00. For 5.00, i expect a band that took some time to rehearse together, dressed like they wanted to entertain people, and i expect them to play songs that might be entertaining.

If you show up and jam for the first time with a bunch of guys like it's an open mic, don't expect people to pay. If you are dressed like you just got off your couch, don't expect people to pay. If you don't have a set list, don't expect people to pay... just stand up there and jam... no payment necessary.

Just my two cents.

 

[ripbobbysheehan]

Rereading the OP, and to the question "Has anyone figured out the weird psychology of people being cheap when it comes to seeing live music?":

I believe the psychology boils down to the transient feeling of "value".

In relation to ticket prices/cover charges: Today, I could go to a local stadium, and for a nominal fee get a tour of the stadium. I could even sit in the front row and take a picture. Say that's $15. But next week a Taylor Swift concert came to town. The cost of being in that same seat will likely be $1,000 or more. Same seat, different price. Now, fast forward 20 years, and Taylor Swift comes to the same venue, the ticket price is likely $200 or less. These are fictitious numbers, but I think you get the point. Marketing of the venue and artist, mixed with what those clientele are willing to pay can cause the price of the same item (Namely a front row seat), to change dramatically.

So what's the solution to ticket prices? Most likely the answer is Perception. Would you pay $10 to see 4 twenty year olds botch "Stairway to Heaven"? Probably no, that's not good value. But Would you pay $10 to see Led Zeppin perform "Stairway to Heaven"? Probably, and buy a whole section of seats to boot. It's good value.

If a bar/band wants to charge a cover, they better darn well do some marketing, and provide a service fit for someone's $5. And it doesn't really matter what the people want. If they won't pay the cover, they won't come, and your business fails. If they do come, great, you've become a successful business person.

Yep, or to put it another way, for $10 I can get a whole month of more movies and TV shows than I could possibly watch in that time frame, beamed directly to my comfortable living room from outer space. What are you providing that would make me want to pay the same amount of money for an hour or two of listening to your band, which I've never heard of before, in a crowded bar with overpriced drinks and rude, drunk, noisy patrons who would limit my enjoyment even if I do end up liking your music?

Sure, if I'm actively seeking an evening of live music I'll go to a venue that I know has a good soundman and a history of booking quality bands, and in that case I've got no problem paying a cover for an unknown band or bands because I know from experience that I'm likely to have a good time. But how many of those venues and how many people actively seeking and willing to pay for that experience on a regular basis are there in your city compared with the number of bands trying to make it there? My guess is not nearly enough to support that ecosystem. And if you want me to pay that same cover to see you play in a crappy bar that cares more about selling drinks than about providing an enjoyable musical experience then you REALLY better be killing it.

There are people who want to see live music and people who want to get drunk and try to pick up strangers; unfortunately the two generally don't mix. If your goal is to attract the first group then you need to be at the top of your game musically and you need to be playing the sort of venues that make the musical experience enjoyable to those patrons, but even then the size of that market isn't nearly large enough to support you and every other band in your area so you're going to struggle to make a living. The second group is both much larger and far more lucrative to most establishments, but they don't want to pay to see your band unless you're bringing a major party-like atmosphere that increases their chances of scoring with the stacked blonde singing off-key in the corner of the bar.

 

[john_g]

things always change over time or did you not know that..?..

Oh I didnt know that. Thanks for clearing that up, you so smart and absolutely must be a fantastic bass player

 

[john_g]

I am..and thats why I play on the big stage and always get paid big bucks to play..

Oh...i can tell!

 

[fhm555]

that sign is a stupid idea..but it probably truly relates to the quality of the entertainment that was to be available for the event..

I guess it was a different time with a different attitude.

We always did better with the sign pictured than the one described and always packed the house whever we played.

I guess it was just a time of incredible stupidity and bad taste among both entertainers and the entertained.

Either way, thanks so much for the scathing assumption, even though it was so far off the mark it is beyond laughable, i'm sure you can compensate by reporting me to the mods for the stupid photo i posted.

 

[Joe Nerve]

I dont know Joe...the places I go to are never free..they are never $5 to get in..always more..but always have supergreat entertainment..and packed with people looking for a good time..cost at the door is irrelevant..they would rather pay $7 and up for something..than $5 and under for nothing..

That's why I said I think it's fine if a place is always packed. It's the struggling bars, the ones that are counting on the band to bring people - who wind up drawing from 10 - 30 people that are the ones who I think are killing themselves by charging a cover. Pretty much all the bars I've played over the past 2 decades that were doing that are either closed, or still starving. And the ones I know that were letting people in for free are usually packed. Even if they're now charging a $20 cover.

I think it's even better to pay the bands a little less, and allow them to pass a basket.

I also don't think there's any science to this at all. If I owned a bar - what I'd most likely do is try everything for a while to find out what worked best.

 

[somebrains]

My personal fave is when the door guy lets in girls and keeps the dudes waiting.
If the band is worth seeing, and the drink prices aren't jacked up, then it's worth the price of admission.
If the band is an unknown, then they should put some Youtube clips up bc Millenials like to do their homework and create their own buzz or thumbs down which is something your hangers on can manage for the band along with load ins.

 

[Shimmi]

UPDATE: I only got halfway through the responses THANKYOU everyone for giving input, truly appreciated.

However I feel I must say some things because with every post people assume I'm in a huge downtown city where every band plays every corner.
To paint a better picture. Im in rural Wisconsin, a town of about 6000. Plenty of bars but live music isn't as big a presence. We got DJs and Karaoke. A few bars have smaller acts play, mainly coffee houses (btw they also charge a cover)

So there's not 15 "clubs" down the street not charging covers. We have hunters, ice fishers, people who live in Florida but own cabins in town.

That being said with lack of competition, I'm at a better advantage than most places but its similar in that people are sketchy on paying covers.

So what I realized is that if you live in a metropolis, or a small town people are still sketchy on how they spend $5

Puzzling.