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Purchased Sonuus B2M Bass Midi Interface

#41
OK, just to clear any confusion (not that anyone claimed there was any):
I just purchased the Sonuus BM2 and tested it yesterday and today. Here are my findings on how to make a good tracking:

1) Use a bass with medium to high action, as this will minimize the unwanted noise.
2) String muting will help
3) Filtering your tone for lows and highs help
4) Rolling off the passive tone control helps
5) Adjust your volume on the bass so that the "clip" indicator only briefly lights up when you dig in the most

Using these tricks, I'm getting a fairly consistent MIDI tracking of my bass. I tested it with a Jazz bass with medium action and with a 3-band Nordstrand preamp. Rolled the bass and treble controls off and midtone all up, and get a fairly sensitive and stable tracking that allows me to add vibrato and other playing techniques. With the eq-ed signal, I didn't even have to mute the strings too heavily either.

So I'm thinking of getting a signal splitter and take out a signal for pitch conversion early in the effects loop, before anything the main signal gets further processed. Then run it through an eq pedal where I can optimize the signal for the MIDI tracking purposes. Unnecessary to mention... but the eq-ed signal from my bass rather unusable as a bass sound once the tracking got good. :D

So this little device will need a little extra gadgets in order to work properly, but it's still a cheap solution (was thinking of getting a Behringer pedal for this purpose, so won't really bring the cost up too much). But with this in mind, the solution isn't quite as inexpensive anymore. And you also need a synthesizer module.

So to sum it up, you could get this module at $100, add a synthesizer at another $1-200, add a Behringer splitter and eq at another $50, and you're at $2-350. Compare that to the Roland GR-20, and you might find that the Roland is a better option (being polyphonic and tracking better, but however requires installation on your bass).

But if you already have the mentioned equipment handy.... this gadget is a nice lil piece of equipment to connect them all together. :)
 
#42
The Sonuus B2M isn't useful live for normal or fast playing. They've nailed the latency issue with super fast tracking. Velocity tracking seems excellent. However, the pitch tracking is extremely flakey. It will pick wrong notes frequently, and more annoying it has serious ghost/retrigger issues where you'll play a single note but it will trigger a few NOTE ON/OFF sequences quickly. The wrong notes I could probably learn to deal with, but when it sends 3 NOTE ON events for a single note it screws up envelopes and what not.

Note you can hear all of these issues in the YouTube video linked here: Wrong notes, doubled/trippled notes, all of it.

But they've nailed the latency. It's absolutely playable in that regard.

I was having some good success using the B2M to control effects with Velocity and Note data. I'd set my software, Plogue Bidule as my VST host, and could set a keyboard split (which ghost/retriggers don't affect, though grossly wrong notes would) from the B2M output to do channel switching and toggle effects in real-time, or use Velocity data to control VST parameters as the Velocity output seemed very solid and responsive, though sometimes a little hot so I'd have to use a velocity scaler to keep too many of the notes from peaking at 127. But I was finding great use for it to provide real-time control based on my playing. Keyboard splits were awesome fun.

But using it to trigger VST synth like Massive for awesome electro-dance bass wasn't working at all for me. Way too glitchy.

Related to all of my adventures, free VST audio-to-synth apps like FrettedSynth GuitarSynSE was much, Much, MUCH more usable as it tracks pitch directly, thus no MIDI necessary. It has issues tracking latency properly, so I'd feed it a heavily gated and squashed/controlled input. But the tracking and sounds are excellent, as is latency. Korg Legacy MS-20 tracks pitch as well, though I found that VST overall to be less useful due to the sounds it produces.
 
#43
I have to chime in again :)

What I have found is that preprocessing the signal helps quite a bit. However, the unit is also dependent on the bass that is used. I have a few basses, and i have two that I manage to track properly through the Sonuus. One is a Yamaha TRB6 with Barts and Glock preamp, and the other is a Clement/Status jazz bass with Nordstrand Big Split and Nordie preamp. I am running the signal through an A/B-box, and I feed the B to a graphic equalizer where I boost the frequencies between 200-1.6kHz and cut the rest (including the <200 frequencies). I also trim the volume of the signal by varying the Level control. Usually it's pulled down a little bit to around -10dB. The A/B switch allows me to turn off the "synth chain" when needed. :-)

I also discovered that using the "Chromatic" option increases the accuracy of the Sonuus dramatically. I guess this is natural, as it makes it less sensitive to pitch change and it enables the unit to track even faster. OK, so you lose a little pitch bend... but it's better to have a controllable tone without pitch bend than an unusable one with bend? :-)

I didn't have the time to record this right now, but I will see if I can get to it later.

By additionally muting the strings with my palm and not playing the fastest I know, I am capable of getting relatively decent tracking without too much octave shifting.
 
#46
Well, Big Beat.... *lol* I cannot answer that, really. But I have to agree. It would be convenient if they had added some pre-processing opportunities on the box.

I have recorded a sample. Please don't listen too carefully, it's crappy playing, just did it quickly for you to hear what I'm talking about.

Invalid Link Removed

There are some parts here, separated by "blops"
Starting out with no eq, no chromatic option on the Sonuus.
1) Unprocessed signal (notice the signal goes everywhere)
2) Eq-ed signal but with pitch recognition (no chromatic)
3) Eq-ed signal with pitch recognition, played by muting strings with palm
4) Eq-ed signal with chromatic option

Trying to do various speeds (crappy, I know) to show the speed of the tracking.

I think that it is fairly usable in the last configuration.

The set up is Yamaha TRB6 (Bart/Glock) -> Startouch switch (A -> instrument to Genz Benz Shuttle 6)
B -> Behringer EQ -> Sonuus -> (MIDI) Dave Smith Mopho -> Line-in on GenzBenz.

Everything recorded on my Zoon H2.
 
#48
Thanks, I've got a Gr-20, but seeing this one makes me want to upgrade :-)
I have a few basses without the midi pickup, which is why i had to test the sonuus out. I agree, the dedicated system is way better. The Sonuus is able to produce, but its difficult - although possible - to track correctly. ;-)
 
#49
im interested in using this thing to just enter data into my midi sequencer. in other words, it would be more convienient for me to just play the line that i want rather than try to enter it into the sequencer with a mouse or a piano keyboard. i have no issue with slowing down the tempo of the song and playing the notes slowly in order to get the data into the computer. will this thing work well for that application?
 
#52
yar. should qualify that i guess. for what i would want an audio-midi converter for, it's useless. i envisioned being able to record down lines in audio and midi so i'd have a notebook to look back if it was a ramble i forgot how to play or sumphin.

and i could MAYBE get it track half-assed cleanly if i played i a way that i would never do unless i was just trying to use it in a way to accentuate it's minuscule positives.

yah.
 
#53
I understand what you're saying, behndy, and I don't want to come across as the Sonuus' big warrior on here, cause I really am not. I also own a Roland GR-20 and it beats the Sonuus hands down in 99 or 100 cases.

However, I have 20+ basses, and only 3 of them are equipped with the Roland GK3B pickup. Therefore, I was curious to see the Sonuus in action.

Out of the box it's hard to make it work. I managed to get it to track quite decently using a Jazz bass with a Nordstrand preamp, by cutting bass and treble, boosting mids, and soloing the neck pickup. This is what led me to believe that doing some "pre-eqing" of the signal before tracking it to MIDI would help the Sonuus achieve something useful. This is dependent on which way you intend to use the unit. If you are ok with having a useless bass sound, you can tweak the sound on the bass. If you, like me, would like to double the bass line with a synth line, you need to retain your bass' character.

So the idea to implement an A/B switch and putting an equalizer in the Sonuus part of the chain. Eliminating the Sonuus from the bass audio chain, it allowed me to pre-process the singal to what's more optimal to the Sonuus requirements. It is no easy task it's up against, picking notes from a very rich frequency spectrum. By removing the bass frequency and tidying up a little on the treble side, it makes it a lot easier for the sonuus to catch what's going on. However, there's also another thing that is a problem. The input volume on the Sonuus needs to be controlled, for the unit to be able to capture dynamics and notes correctly. To avoid the red "clip" led from lighting up, I need to turn down the bass and eq volume, and the -15dB on the eq is simply not enough.

So here are the crucial points I've found in order to make the Sonuus work:
* Volume: You need to stay well below the clip-light. Even on my passive basses, I need to turn down the volume on the bass. Solution: Get a volume pedal in line with the Sonuus chain.
* EQ: Cut bass and treble, and boost mid
* Neck pickup works better than bridge pickup
* Clean playing: If you hear "slides" and "buzzes" and "stumbles" in your bass line (audio), forget it... you're distracting the Sonuus. It needs CLEAR notes. So if you're playing technique isn't clean, raise your strings a little. And practice..... practice... practice.... ;-)
* Muting strings: Palm muting the strings will clean up the signal a lot, and helps the tracking immensly.
* Pitch vs Chromatic option. The Chromatic option loses the pitch information (like bend), however, it tracks a lot more stable, as the note has a "band" to fall in between. Everything from 1/4 note below to 1/4 note above your "target note" will trigger the correct note. So it gives the Sonuus a lil more relaxed times in tracking notes.
* The synthesizer patch you're using. This has a huge impact on the end result. I can find patches on my Dave Smith Mopho that tracks brilliantly, while others are all over the place. I am not a synth guru or a MIDI king, so I have no idea what's going on. But there has to be some MIDI options that are more "stable" to use than others.

Bottom line is, to make this work, you have to play with it to find it's strengths and weaknesses. You cannot expect the unit to track your every note cleanly. You have to help it. It won't work for everything, but it can definitely be utilized in adding some spize and extra gizmo to your playing. It might not allow you to play your basslines DIRECTLY on a synth bass sound. If that's what you want, move on to something more advanced. However, if you're prepared to practice and find new textures, it's a useful little gem. And it has almost no latency. That's a big big achievement from the Sonuus guys.

And let me add, even the much more sophisticated Roland GR-20 needs some cleaning up of your playing technique and style, as well as practice to get it right.

I think we should critique the Sonuus for what it *IS*, and not for what it *ISN'T*. It definitely isn't the simple and immediate solution to allow your bass to be a full-blown synth controller. What it is, is a neat little tool that can - if treated right - add some synth textures to some of your playing. :-)

Peace :)
 
#54
that's some very helpful information, and i might try to run that way to see if i can get it to work.

i guess i'm most frustrated by it being MARKETED as a bass to midi box. which makes me think that i shouldn't have to make my bass sound un-bassl-like to get it to work correctly. and the video they have with Bill Dickens is VERY misleading. he's playing fast notes all over the place and having it track super cleanly. granted, he's about a BILLION times the bassist i'll ever be, but it made it look like a way different pieceof gear than what i got.

and honestly, i was mostly hoping that it'd be even close to how the demo's made it look. for a $100 i would have been amazed if it worked correctly.

and for what it's worth, i play a Dingwall 6 tuned BEADGC, so i did run it through a higher range than a standard tuning would allow. still didn't work at all well for me.

yay. i ramble. i DO appreciate the advice, and it's always awesome to hear from people with experience with a piece of gear.

thanks!
 
#55
Spend the extra money, and get a Sonuus i2M. Its an all-in-one version of their hardware and works with basically any instrument. I've bought one, had it down to 2ms latency through Ableton on a Macbook, and it tracked perfectly all the way down to open E on my MIJ '75RI. Highly recommended.
 
#56
i cant even use this thing to enter notes into my midi sequencer in step recording mode. that's where you just play one note at a time. i tried everything mentioned in this thread. im playing one note at a time, with exaggerated space between them, and still it tracks the note on and note off as different notes than the note i actually played. so for each note i want to enter, it enters 3. totally worthless for me as it is. if anyone has more suggestions let me know, but ive really tried muting and everthing else.
 
#57
EddieG said:
Spend the extra money, and get a Sonuus i2M. Its an all-in-one version of their hardware and works with basically any instrument. I've bought one, had it down to 2ms latency through Ableton on a Macbook, and it tracked perfectly all the way down to open E on my MIJ '75RI. Highly recommended.
Click to expand...

yeahhhhhhhh...... i'm glad it works for you, but i'm kinda like "screw Sonus". they got a $100 purchase out of me for something that is COMPLETELY useless (wanting to use it the way it's freaking demoed in their vids). they won. but that's enough for me.
 
#60
MrWalker said:
It's not useless, however, it does require some hard work to make it work properly. It is possible to make it work, but it's not straightforward.

For many it will be useless. For some it will be a useful option.
Click to expand...

+1

MrWalker said:
* Clean playing: If you hear "slides" and "buzzes" and "stumbles" in your bass line (audio), forget it... you're distracting the Sonuus. It needs CLEAR notes.
Click to expand...

+1

Latency seems pretty good, taking it's limitations into account. But if you're trying to play a 'jumpy' bassline (Say, Groove is in the Heart, or Stevie wonder lines) then finding the technique to damp unwanted notes as you cross strings and get this thing to track cleanly is going to be pretty hard.
 

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