Pushing a head too hard?

[agedhorse]

How are the amp and cabinet ratings specified? Are they using RMS metrics, or perhaps are the words “burst”, “program”, or “peak” being used?

 

[MCS4]

You should definitely wear hearing protection if you are playing in any band with two distorted guitars, even if the volume comes down.

Otherwise, what cab are you using? If you are using only one cab, and that cab is not an 8x10 or similar, then it is not surprising that you can't be heard regardless of wattage. Personally I find that I will sometimes end up pushing nearly any solid state amp too hard in a two-guitar, loud rock/metal situation unless I have sufficient cabs, which for me generally means 8x10 (or more accurately, two 4x10s). On individual gigs and rehearsals you may very well get away with less, particularly when there is a good PA, but over the course of time you will likely always run into issues at least periodically without plenty of speaker coverage.

 

[tvbop]

After years of this bloody nonsense when I was young I can tell you now your guitarists have got there bass dimed that's why its all so awful and you too need to reduce bass too and push mids. Been there done it and got a 100 T shirts for the trouble. Even now I can hear how it must sound....yuch!

 

[MultiScaleMale]

Not all our gigs are that loud, in fact very few are but when I do play I don't use ear protection... I really should!!

Get some custom made ear plugs. Please use them, trust me.

 

[drpepper]

Am I being paranoid or is it a legit concern?

I really don't think it matters, because this sounds like a situation where your audiences probably consist of 5 or 6 dudes (on a good night) who are interested in that and willing to put up with it.

 

[pbassnut]

Hi guys,

I'm just curious... I have a 1000watt head and a 1200watt cab both @4ohm and sometimes I find myself pushing the master vol up to 8/10 to cut through a live set with 2x guitarists using 4x12 marshall cabs...

I've asked them countless times to turn down as I'm afraid of pushing my head too hard. I've had a hartke head crap out on me before pushing it up to 8 also... Am I being paranoid or is it a legit concern?

Appreciate any info!

If it were me, I wouldn't worry about the amp. I'd just quit that band ... that's just silly loud if your 1000 watt rig can't keep up. Bands come and go, but you're going to need your hearing for the rest of your life. I've got a bass buddy who's a really good and accomplished player who has been playing for a long time in mostly roots music bands that are probably nowhere near as loud as the one you're playing with. His hearing was just fine until he took a sub gig that required a rehearsal where the guitar player was irresponsible and played way too loud and my friend got tinnitus as a result. Take it from my friend's experience, it's a real drag and should be avoided like the plague.

 

[Grinderman]

My Bloody Valentine's Kevin Shields: 'I play through the pain'

I've seen MBV live numerous times. Out of more shows I can remember or recount since the mid-80s, MBV was the loudest... Much louder the Iggy Pop and The Stooges, for example... accept that one time their massive PA system died at an outdoor music festival. In an instant they went from 11 to almost nothing. It was striking how low their backline volumes were.

Realizing they're all likely going deaf though, it shouldn't be all that surprising.

"Shields has a habit of making it sound like the most reasonable thing in the world one minute – bands are loud, he shrugs, but most gigs are “laughably quiet … something you’re consuming, not being consumed by” – then admitting that My Bloody Valentine reached a point where they were playing at such volume that they were causing structural damage to venues. “Chunks were falling out of the ceiling. It sounds like an exaggeration, but I’m serious – we were really concerned that eventually some roof was going to fall down,” he says. “It was a matter of time before a serious accident happened.”"

My Bloody Valentine’s Kevin Shields: ‘We wanted to sound like a band killing their songs’​

Yes. I was at this concert. Same stage of the famous 1964 T.A.M.I. Show.

You Made Me Realise

 

[mdogs]

I can't even imagine how this is a real scenario. Last night my band set up for a show tonight on a large stage in a room that seats 1000. I am using my Markbass CMD102P combo and my Traveler 102P cabinet. I had my volume on about 3 with gain at about 50% and I was more than loud. This is with 3 guitars, keys and a not overly loud drummer, guitars are loud. FOH was extremely loud, I am thinking about handing our ear plugs to the crowd.

If the OP's guitars are that loud, there is no way I would even try and keep up. Nothing good ever happens that loud.

 

[Discount Bassy]

Less stage volume. Invest in sound support. Get earplugs yesterday.

 

[DrThumpenstein]

Advice above about HPF, EQ can help you be heard better, but if you don't have enought speaker surface area, you're not going to keep up. My biggest question is what kind/size and how many drivers are in the cab? Driver efficiency is important as well. A 115 wouldn't have a chance, you'll need a lot of speaker surface area to keep up with all that, unless you go through FOH. You may need two 212s, two 215s or an 8X10.

While it's possible preserve and protect your hearing, modern medicine is VERY limited in RESTORING hearing, so once it's gone, it's gone. And the accompanying tinnitus can be maddening, so yeah, protect those ears!

 

[Analogeezer]

Is your gear made by Behringer, by any chance?

Yeah that immediately came to mind to me as well.....1,000 watts in the model name and marketing materials, 200 watts in the actual real world LOL.

I have a Bugera BVP-5500 (it's actually a great amp that has been very reliable) and it is rated at 550 watts.

While it does get louder with more headroom than my Ampeg B2-R (350 watts) it's not that much louder (frankly even if it was 550 watts it would not be that much louder, I was after more headroom which it does have).

Where I suspect the 550 watts came from was this amp was designed to be like the Ampeg SVT-3 Pro, which is 450 watts at four ohms.

So the Behringer/Bugera marketeers figured "well we will just say it's 550 watts so it is 100 watts more" LOL.

I've noticed as of late some amp companies (like Hartke) seem to be going back to the bad old days of using some inflated "peak power" volume spec, then putting that into the name and the marketing materials.

People seem to really like their new combos (KB500?) but the first comment people make is it's not near 500 watts, more like 250 watts.

Analogeezer

 

[Jefenator]

I have a 400 watt head that starts blowing out a "hot electronics" smell when I dig in with the rock n roll trio. That seems unsettling to me, so I avoid it for that application. (Curiously, the 50 watt tube amps seem fine in the same setting - they distort but in a really awesome, musical way. They get warm, but they don't put out any kind of weird smell...)
I can only speculate as a layman as to whether your amp is getting damaged or not. All I can say is, I usually don't crank the master up anywhere near that far - especially with 1000 watts! But amps seem to vary widely with their ratings & internal construction.
Earplugs and more sensitive bandmates definitely seem like a good idea.

 

[Redbrangus]

I'm still waiting to hear what 1000-watt amp and 1200-watt speaker system are being used.

 

[BassNugget]

What is the amp? What is the cab? Most modern amps have some protection circuitry to prevent damage. The amp will most likely cut power to the cab for a few seconds, or go into standby. If it does this, it's letting you know that what you are doing "ain't cool man."

But yeah, would be good to know what gear ya got.

 

[agedhorse]

What is the amp? What is the cab? Most modern amps have some protection circuitry to prevent damage. The amp will most likely cut power to the cab for a few seconds, or go into standby. If it does this, it's letting you know that what you are doing "ain't cool man."

But yeah, would be good to know what gear ya got.

Amp protection isn’t designed to protect cabinets from damage due to overdriving.

 

[bigjames]

EQ questions aside, I am trying to imagine how loud that environment must be for that much juice not to cut through. I have one group I play with that is loud; the BL likes his voice and acoustic at a level that is way too much for anyone else. My Markbass 300W 210 combo is never higher than 4 and I have no issues...it must be excruciatingly loud.

Ear protection ASAP...or the problem is the whole band already has ear damage. Good luck!

 

[drpepper]

I'm still waiting to hear what 1000-watt amp and 1200-watt speaker system are being used.

Just a click away for the curious...Markbass Marcus Miller head and Barefaced Big Twin cabinet

(edit: apparently, from other posts)

 

[buldog5151bass]

If you have a thousand watt head, equivalent cab, and it isn't loud enough to keep up, I don't want to be in the same county as your concert, no matter how much I like the music. Please please please get some serious hearing protection immediately.

 

[JeezyMcNuggles]

Hi guys,

I'm just curious... I have a 1000watt head and a 1200watt cab both @4ohm and sometimes I find myself pushing the master vol up to 8/10 to cut through a live set with 2x guitarists using 4x12 marshall cabs...

I've asked them countless times to turn down as I'm afraid of pushing my head too hard. I've had a hartke head crap out on me before pushing it up to 8 also... Am I being paranoid or is it a legit concern?

Appreciate any info!

You're alright. Those class D heads don't really start opening up til you're past half anyway. What you can do is work your gain a little also. Or just up the mids a little.

 

[groooooove]

your concerned with your amp and not with your ability to hear anything later in life.

adjust your priorities, then adjust your EQ.

my 800 watt markbass head i can only recall hitting higher than "noon" 2-3 times in the 10+ years i've used it professionally. outdoor festivals and all. something is wrong.

seriously, please start using earplugs.

when I was about 12 i walked into a local guitar store (small little boutique vintage-specialist shop) and the guy behind the counter, who we were friendly with, threw a pair of foam earplugs at myself and my friends and said "hey, you like the sound of a vaccuum cleaner 24/7? no? use these, goddamnit"

he was 100% right.