Pushing a head too hard?

[Runlikegregg]

Why not get another cab?
If you had 8x10's you wouldn't be pushing your head so hard.
You can only get so much volume out of a single cab.
And more speakers will do WAY more to increase your volume than more power.
Plus you'll get some headroom back and sound better all around.
That and turn up your mids to cut through better.

 

[Wasnex]

While it does get louder with more headroom than my Ampeg B2-R (350 watts) it's not that much louder (frankly even if it was 550 watts it would not be that much louder, I was after more headroom which it does have).

The decibel difference between 550W and 350W is about 1.5dB. In the real world it will probably be even less due to power compression.

The general rule is you need a 3dB change for it to be clearly perceived. So, if your Ampeg makes an honest 350W, you need to bump the power up to 700W to hear a significant difference in volume.

AFAIK, this assumes the voicing of both amps are identical, which they are probably not. If one amp is a bit brighter than the other, I would expect it to sound louder. It might even sound louder while putting out less power.

 

[MultiScaleMale]

Any suggestions for decent gear? I'm based in Ireland so not sure who or what I can get. Thanks!

My audiologist recommended a brand based on the molds they created, but I have a weird crook in my ear canal that made normal ear plugs uncomfortable.

 

[mrperkolator]

I've got THE solution :

- You know how TB works: soon you're going to reply "thanks guys, I've got my answer",
- Despite that answer, the thread is going to go on and on, you'll end up with 8 or 12 pages, the majority of answers will confirm your guitarists should turn their volume down
- As soon as you got enough answers, you print the whole thread and show it to the guitarists

And you buy ear protections before it's too late

Problem solved

You forgot to suggest that he should buy a new p bass.

Any suggestions for decent gear? I'm based in Ireland so not sure who or what I can get. Thanks!

flats and tort pickguard for the new p bass.

Thanks dude, I'm going to grab a pair and I'm taking what people are saying onboard... I've actually booked in with an audiologist to get a test + some custom protection.

(ok now I'm serious) This is awesome. I'm only 35, and my tinnitus is very aggravating at times. Its probably your most important piece of gear as a musician. I'm sure William Boyce and Ludwig van Beethoven would agree that hearing music is important.

 

[Razman]

I’m sorry, I can’t hear you over how awesome my bass tone is…

(Mike drops…)

 

[mrjim123]

You're worried about your head? I'd be worried about what's attached to your head, i.e., your ears!

 

[mrjim123]

If you're using that ampeg hlf 4-10, they are a darker, lower sounding cabinet. Maybe you need an 8-10 if they won't turn down.

What, no smiley? You can't be serious.

 

[BernardBass]

Why not get another cab?
If you had 8x10's you wouldn't be pushing your head so hard.
You can only get so much volume out of a single cab.
And more speakers will do WAY more to increase your volume than more power.
Plus you'll get some headroom back and sound better all around.
That and turn up your mids to cut through better.

Yeah it's an expensive option lol I'd need to buy a new head and replace the cabs (not sure if I could

You forgot to suggest that he should buy a new p bass.



flats and tort pickguard for the new p bass.



(ok now I'm serious) This is awesome. I'm only 35, and my tinnitus is very aggravating at times. Its probably your most important piece of gear as a musician. I'm sure William Boyce and Ludwig van Beethoven would agree that hearing music is important.

Hahahaha funny I don't own a pbass.. but I am waiting on my custom MARUSZCZYK instruments bass to come in, which has a p pup(with mm) but it's also my own design + wiring etc.

Man I haven't used flats in a long time... Those thomastik infelds ain't cheap!

But yeah dude I do have tinnitus so after seeing all the comments made me pull the finger out. Really isn't worth going deaf over. So if nothing else thank you folks for making me do that

 

[BernardBass]

I’m sorry, I can’t hear you over how awesome my bass tone is…

View attachment 4617372

(Mike drops…)

Lol you're my new hero

 

[BernardBass]

My audiologist recommended a brand based on the molds they created, but I have a weird crook in my ear canal that made normal ear plugs uncomfortable.

Cool I've never been to one before but I've booked in for a specialist consultation on Monday so fingers crossed they sort me out!

 

[Rip Van Dan]

Not all our gigs are that loud, in fact very few are but when I do play I don't use ear protection... I really should!!

What??? What's that you said? In my early 20's I toured with a nightclub group playing 5-nights a week 50-weeks a year, usually spending 2 weeks at each spot. I had a Standel piggy-back amp with a 215 bass reflex powered cabinet. If I turned it above #3 on the volume dial, it would start pushing people out the back. It had 4 round ports vertically to the left of the speakers and if was within about three feet, it would make my bell-bottoms flap (early 70's you know). I NEVER used ear protection and at some of those venues if we played too loud my ears would ring.

Fast forward to a few years ago and having a hearing test done because my wife is tired of my saying, "What?". I hear fine until I hit 3KHz and then that hearing chart takes a nose dive and slithers along the bottom at every frequency above that. Don't do what I did.

Get some good hearing protection such as EarDial, Ear Peace, etc. If not, you'll end up with the same hearing problems I have...by the way could you raise your speaking level to about a 5 so I can understand what you're saying???

 

[bigjames]

On the plus side, as least the guitarists are asking for more bass. LOL. I have played with groups that want lots of vox and guitar in the monitors, but no bass....to the point I have played some gigs without being able to hear myself. Doable (albeit frustrating) on fretted bass, but nearly impossible on fretless and very very frustrating.

 

[Razman]

Lol you're my new hero

It's a long story - planning on doing a video about "why" some day, but last night at practice I played through it (minus the PJB/GK rig) in our theater and it's just awesome. And when we were setting our stage volume a couple of days ago I was asked to turn down just a hair so I turned one of my knobs and was given the thumb's up. Later I realized it was the channel 2 volume on the Mesa 400 (which I'm not using) so I didn't actually change my volume at all (the power amp on the right is fed by the 400's DI so volume changes control it's output). No, I didn't tell anyone, either.

And I have been wearing hearing protection for years and can attest that it does save your hearing.

Raz

 

[Gormsgade]

Ampeg SVT stack and you`re done. Plus getting a good exercise from haulin it around (been there myself)

 

[coyote1]

Hi guys,

I'm just curious... I have a 1000watt head and a 1200watt cab both @4ohm and sometimes I find myself pushing the master vol up to 8/10 to cut through a live set with 2x guitarists using 4x12 marshall cabs...

I've asked them countless times to turn down as I'm afraid of pushing my head too hard. I've had a hartke head crap out on me before pushing it up to 8 also... Am I being paranoid or is it a legit concern?

Appreciate any info!

Are they running full stacks or half stacks?

 

[BernardBass]

It's a long story - planning on doing a video about "why" some day, but last night at practice I played through it (minus the PJB/GK rig) in our theater and it's just awesome. And when we were setting our stage volume a couple of days ago I was asked to turn down just a hair so I turned one of my knobs and was given the thumb's up. Later I realized it was the channel 2 volume on the Mesa 400 (which I'm not using) so I didn't actually change my volume at all (the power amp on the right is fed by the 400's DI so volume changes control it's output). No, I didn't tell anyone, either.

And I have been wearing hearing protection for years and can attest that it does save your hearing.

Raz

Well I'm only gigging part time... But that rig is a professional setup lol albeit bigger than most bands I've ever seen live apart from a few.

Acdc would be proud man! I was going to make a joke asking if that was just your jamming rig but even 1/2 is mental lol

Are you playing metal?

 

[BernardBass]

Ampeg SVT stack and you`re done. Plus getting a good exercise from haulin it around (been there myself)

I got rid of my svt hlf 4x10 for the barefaced for that very reason... My back

 

[BernardBass]

Are they running full stacks or half stacks?

I assume full? Both have 4x12 cabs and 150watt heads

 

[Runlikegregg]

Yeah it's an expensive option lol I'd need to buy a new head and replace the cabs (not sure if I could

Hahahaha funny I don't own a pbass.. but I am waiting on my custom MARUSZCZYK instruments bass to come in, which has a p pup(with mm) but it's also my own design + wiring etc.

Man I haven't used flats in a long time... Those thomastik infelds ain't cheap!

But yeah dude I do have tinnitus so after seeing all the comments made me pull the finger out. Really isn't worth going deaf over. So if nothing else thank you folks for making me do that

but you don't need to buy a need head. That's the point. right?

 

[Rip Van Dan]

Hi guys,

I'm just curious... I have a 1000watt head and a 1200watt cab both @4ohm and sometimes I find myself pushing the master vol up to 8/10 to cut through a live set with 2x guitarists using 4x12 marshall cabs...

I've asked them countless times to turn down as I'm afraid of pushing my head too hard. I've had a hartke head crap out on me before pushing it up to 8 also... Am I being paranoid or is it a legit concern?

Appreciate any info!

I have a DNS-210 (handles 700-watts rms with max SPL of 134db) and DNS-410 (handles 1400-watts rms with a max SPL of 137db). Your amp should take that DNS-410 to ~135db if you can stand to be anywhere near it at that level. That's well above the threshold of pain. With my 800-watt Eden (amp bridged at 8Ω) into my DNS-410, I get told to turn down at outdoor Music Festivals if I turn the master up to 10:30. About the highest I can get away with at Festivals is 10:15. So, I don't need an 810.

If I really want to get carried away, I'll stack my DNS210 on top of my DNS-410 and then use my DNA-800 to power them both, but I've never needed to do that. I did stack them once, as you can see in the picture below, but only had the 210 plugged in. Wasn't sure it would handle as large of a room as we were in and knew my 410 could. So stacked that way, I could quickly unplug the 210 and plug in my DNS-410 if I needed to. I didn't need to. I did need to move the amp over though. Was on a shallow stage and I was way too close to the 210's speakers...was painful. Once I was able to get out of the cabs 60° cone of dispersion, I was OK.