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QSC -- 2 K12's and 1 KW181 -- Feedback please!

jjk2007

jjk2007

Supporting Member
Apr 16, 2008
4,528
11,465
Austin, TX
#1
After having to let go of our drummer who owned our full QSC gigging rig we're back to square one for tonights gig. The good news is our old system was barely pushed at the majority of the venues we play so we figured instead of spending big $$$ we'd take things down a notch. We have rented a pair of K12's and a KW181 sub for tonight that will be used in conjunction with our TouchMix mixer. If all goes well we will probably buy this setup and use it for all of our gigs. All that said, I'm looking for any tips on getting the maximum performance from this setup. The stage area/dance floor/walking area is too small to put the sub in the middle and split the mains so it will have to be dropped on one side or the other....I'm thinking maybe the side opposite to my bass cab....?? I'm going to assume we will still want to run both mains in the "external sub" position and all that, correct?? Thanks gang and I'm looking forward to the replies!!
 
#2
jjk2007 said:
After having to let go of our drummer who owned our full QSC gigging rig we're back to square one for tonights gig. The good news is our old system was barely pushed at the majority of the venues we play so we figured instead of spending big $$$ we'd take things down a notch. We have rented a pair of K12's and a KW181 sub for tonight that will be used in conjunction with our TouchMix mixer. If all goes well we will probably buy this setup and use it for all of our gigs. All that said, I'm looking for any tips on getting the maximum performance from this setup. The stage area/dance floor/walking area is too small to put the sub in the middle and split the mains so it will have to be dropped on one side or the other....I'm thinking maybe the side opposite to my bass cab....?? I'm going to assume we will still want to run both mains in the "external sub" position and all that, correct?? Thanks gang and I'm looking forward to the replies!!
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I am sure others will chime in with more experience than Me on this.

that said - here goes what I have learned - be it right or be it wrong.....
I run my sub on an aux, using an Xr18. It ought to be pretty similar with your mixer.

I have the K12's set on external sub *(both L and R)

I use the pole mount on the KW181 for one of the K12s and a tripod for the other.

I sometimes add a K-10 daisy chained to one of the mains to get a little more out there - Why a K10? Because I have it.

I have run shows in a smaller soom - +/- 200 seats for jams, shows, a few national acts and for the most part - this has worked fine. My setup had evolved from a peavey XR8600 powered head and two monitors, and two JBL JRX 115s. This is much gooder.
 
#3
jjk2007 said:
The stage area/dance floor/walking area is too small to put the sub in the middle and split the mains so it will have to be dropped on one side or the other....I'm thinking maybe the side opposite to my bass cab....??
Click to expand...

W/ the disclaimer that rooms can have their own acoustic quirks, I'd generally aim to get the low-energy sources together to minimize cancellation/reinforcement alleys. IOW, in your situation I'd start with the single sub on the side that's closest to the bass cab.
 
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#4
I have used both K12's and K10's for tops and at different times K212's and later a K181 subs. Hope I got these right. I liked the K181 but it was to darn heavy for me with awkward handles but it sounded good. If this helps you at all I downsized to K10's and 2 EV 12" powered subs. I use a Mackie DL1608 and instead of using an aux for my sub I use the old panning trick. I pan all channels except our kick drum, my bass and our drum machine to the left. The three mentioned stay dead center. The left out goes to the tops and the right out goes just to the subs. I find these two EV 12" powered subs are better than the single QSC K181 and if the gig is small I can use just one. No the subs will not crush your chest in but I don't need that. Finally I can carry one with each arm if I am feeling manly. Band is standard 4 peice two guiatr band with 4 voices. No stage amps or monitors, all IEM and direct to board for guitars and bass.
 
#6
How did it go? I use that exact set up for my bands... Add a 2nd kw181 and 2 more tops when needed... It's a great system. As noted, run tops with "ext sub" engaged, and run an aux feed with kick, floor tom, bass, maybe keys too, to the subs directly.. Much easier to balance out tops and subs that way..
 
#8
My band used to run 2 K12s and 1 KW181. We eventually picked up another one and it helped fill out our sound. The ideas above are all sound. We used to run the subs thru AUX out and it was ok. I called up QSC and spoke to one of their engineers. While they don't say the K12s and KW181 have built in crossovers, they do possess LPF and HPF at the 100Mhz mark. He suggested the band try straight from our mixer to the KW181 then up to the K12s, since the jacks are full range. I have to say, it cleaned up our sound even more than i thought it would. Simple setup and extremely easy to run. Just another opinion.
 
#9
EastCoastThump said:
W/ the disclaimer that rooms can have their own acoustic quirks, I'd generally aim to get the low-energy sources together to minimize cancellation/reinforcement alleys. IOW, in your situation I'd start with the single sub on the side that's closest to the bass cab.
Click to expand...

I always advise that if you have multiple subs and can do so, pack them together so they act like one big sub, one big almost-point source. That's often not feasible, though.
 
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#13
Bob, everytime I see your avatar it cracks me up! I saw quite a few other teams wail on them back in my UConn days... I sure miss Reins deli downstairs in the old joint though. In the boons of the left coast nobody does rugelach or lox spread with conviction... And pastrami reuben on rye ... Fuggedabodit... No you don't make a reuben with kimchee...
 
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#14
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As for my kw-181's. I stack 2, left and right with a k12 on each, often tipped down and toe'd in... I tend to roll off the lows a bit to tighten thing up a bit given the material I am normally working with... plus a K10 'face fill'. I love this setup. It's like wearing half a headphone with the K10 in your face...

I would cluster but it almost never works in the places I go...

We love the K series stuff... 7 k12's, 2 k10's and 4 181's...so far...
 
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#15
My current band has been going through a LOT of changes with our PA the past 6 months. We have some kind of Behringer board that has Bluetooth controls via the iPhones and a ridiculous number of routing options for IEM's etc etc. I have purposely stayed away from that one because it is complicated and we quickly get too many cooks in the kitchen, so to speak. The FOH output doesn't sound totally great to me; but there are so many EQ's etc etc to sort out that we tend to get things good enough and then go with it. To me, it's actually a bit frustrating.

To the speakers, we originally changed over to 2 K12's running on top of 2 JBL subs. The two band members running the board were concerned about the ability of the K12's to carry the bass; and what we ended up with for bass in the FOH had a big hole in the tone from about 200 Hz up to about 400 Hz. So, pretty much, I had rumble and honk with a big hole in the lower mids. So, I've been covering the bass sounds mostly with my stage rig. I don't know if the K12's are capable of filling that hole and our guys were just being overly careful, or if that is actually an issue.

Anyhow, Monday night at rehearsal, I mentioned something about the sound as we were bringing the PA up, and the guitar player walks out the door and comes back with a hand truck and a pair of the 153's he had just bought over CL. So, we hooked those up full range; and all I can say is night and day difference. Now, we were perhaps being too protective of the K12's; but I've got to say that the 153's can carry the whole band without breaking a sweat.

BTW, the 153's sound SO good, that I may actually be able to consider going amp-less.
 
#19
4Mal said:
If you had a hole with the k12's it was pilot error...
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That's fine. As I believe I stated, I don't own the K12's, and I am not the person flying the PA. This is a moderately loud act, and the person who owns the speakers, and who has now purchased the 153's, isn't excited about testing the limits of his speakers, and I don't blame him. Pilot error vs pilot inexperience vs pilot risk acceptance can be hard to unravel. To me, "error" implies the person knows better and is just doing the wrong thing. That's not what is going on in our case.

Anyhow, the 153's sound amazing. 2nd act I've gigged with that uses them.
 
#20
4Mal said:
If you had a hole with the k12's it was pilot error... I run bass through mine all the time. I've even taken one to a gig as a bass rig and used a preamp to drive it. Kw-153's are pretty nice. I have heard them bark a bit - probably also a matter of eq.
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If the sub(s) is/are run in the wrong polarity with respect to the tops, there will be a hole in the crossover range around 100 Hz. Because it can be kind of unnatural sounding, this could cause a psychoacoustic perception that a different or wider range of frequencies are affected.
 

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