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Question about Behringer 4500

#21
My manual clearly states 450w RMS @ 4 ohms. I'd say it's close because it's more powerful than my Ampeg PF-350, which is a legit 350 watts. It's seems about the same as my previous GK 700RBII.
 
#22
jeff7bass said:
My manual clearly states 450w RMS @ 4 ohms. I'd say it's close because it's more powerful than my Ampeg PF-350, which is a legit 350 watts. It's seems about the same as my previous GK 700RBII.
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I remember reading here that when investigated the 300w version of the Behringer head turned out to be closer to 180w. I'd suggest that the 4500 is no different. Since it's based on the Ashdown MAG and is almost a direct copy, I'd guess that it's probably 300w at the very most. Remember that perceived loudness doesn't equate to watts and headroom. The Behringer sounds very loud indeed but it's no different to any of their other products. Their 1000w 410 is really only capable of handling 500w. Their 115 can handle about 200w true RMS before you're in the speaker danger-zone and it's supposed to be a 500w cab.

Don't get me wrong, I'm in Behringer's corner and always have been. Their price vs performance vs reliability ratio has always been very acceptable to me. Throughout the 2000s they were the only loud rig you could get in Australia on the shop floor for less than $1400. I was very happy with my unit until it went up in smoke after I accidentally ran it at 3 ohm. Still lasted me 4 years and cost only $350AU. It's just been proven time and time again that they fib about their wattage ratings. They're the proverbial fisherman who caught a trout that was 'This big'.
 
#23
Well thanks guys for the informative replies. Not sure what all the lingo means (~1% THD?) but I can google :)
I had band rehearsal Sunday night, granted it was a fairly small room but the head/cab was plenty loud at 33% [post] volume. My concern about the head wattage is because I don't want to blow my 15" 8ohm speaker which says 200w RMS. Now ... I downloaded the Behringer manual before zombifying this thread and saw NO mention of the phrase "rms" although they used plenty of adjectives like "powerful" ... "Powerful 450 watt head" etc etc. I will look again, but I'm pretty sure it never mentions rms.

And what about plugging into a single 8ohm speaker when it says "1x 4ohm or 2x 8ohm" ... Do I need to trade my 8ohm speaker for a 4ohm cab!?!?
 
#26
FWIW, I have been using the BB210 and BB115 Behringer bass cabs for years now, previously powered by a bridged Behrigner EP1500, Now powered by a bridged Crown XLS 1000 Drivecore amp (change only made for weight reasons) and have neved had an issue with the cabs not being able to handle the power of the amps. I use the 115 by itself for most of what I play now (amp is still bridged) and, and even though I don't feel that I hit my gear very hard, I have driven the crown into thermal while running the 155 by itself. The cab never farted out or sounded like it was at its limits. I only thermaled the amp once, and have made adjustments so I don't do it again. Never thermaled the Ep1500 (which I stll have and still works perfectly) and I know I drove it much harded than the Crown when it was my main power amp.

For the record, my cabs are the paper coned versions with the stock Bugera drivers.
 
#31
Justice said:
1) 4) The Behringer speakers are more durable than people think?:hyper:
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Agreed. I had both the 410 and the 115. I sold the 410 in perfect nick, the 115 I did eventually pop the coil on after 6 years. It's in my shed and I still intend to change the speaker on it to a Widow and have a great cab again.

I make no bones about how badly I bullied both of those cabs. The 115 in particular. I was thoroughly impressed with how they held up but I'd still bet my right thumb that they are not rated correctly. I simply don't believe it. Behringer rate everything generously, but it doesn't mean that they make/made bad gear. They don't, especially for the price point.
 
#32
Hi.

nickgrooves said:
Well thanks guys for the informative replies. Not sure what all the lingo means (~1% THD?) but I can google :)
Click to expand...

THD is short for Total Harmonic Distortion.

The percentage of THD in which the power measurement is taken (and published ;)) is crucial if amplifiers from different manufacturers are compared with eachother.

Usually when a hobbyist or a tech benches an amp, he/she just measures the power just before clipping (ie. when the power device exceeds its linear range) at some specific frequency, without a second thought to the waveform.
The resulting power figure isn't very accurate, especially on low frequencies, but since the measurement is very easy and very fast to take, not to mention the ability to do it with otherwise obsolete oscilloscopes, it's the "usual" method.

Very techy stuff, but this wiki article should clear things up a bit:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Total_harmonic_distortion

Regards
Sam
 
#33
Re: price point, I know that's right! I paid $150 for my head "used" but it looks brand new save a couple scratches on the rear panel. Fan is audible, which is weird for me (guitar amps don't have fans) but once I start playing who cares! The tone controls will take some getting used to since I'm not familiar with bass EQ but hey that's why I joined this forum :)

Thnks for the THD education. That's the kind of real-world explanation you can't find on Wiki ;)

"My right thumb..." Haha yeah mine was locking up on me Sunday night. I don't use it to play - I pluck with Index Middle and Ring - but I use my thumb as a brace. Resting on the neck pickup. Must've done more than rest it though because after three hours it really got sore. I hope I'm too young for arthritis LOL
 
#34
nickgrooves said:
Re: price point, I know that's right! I paid $150 for my head "used" but it looks brand new save a couple scratches on the rear panel. Fan is audible, which is weird for me (guitar amps don't have fans) but once I start playing who cares! The tone controls will take some getting used to since I'm not familiar with bass EQ but hey that's why I joined this forum :)
Click to expand...

In terms of the EQ you might want to watch out for the low-mid control (It's labelled by frequencies that I forget, but its the little knob between the Bass and Middle). Pushing that past noon is a sure-fire way of filling the room with mud. I actually used to cut it and boost the Bass and Mid control.

Man, part of me totally misses that amp. Even though it had ordinary tone at best, and I sold it on the ebay for $100 after the magic smoke got out.
 
#36
nickgrooves said:
What's that? and how long did that take?
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Oh that's just TB lingo for when your amp blows up. The joke is that amps operate because they're full of 'magic smoke' and don't work anymore if you let the smoke out of the amp. I had my Behringer from 06 to about halfway through 2009. It only died because I didn't know jack about amps when I was 18 and I ran it with both the 410 and 115 which is a load of about 3 ohm. To its credit it ran with that configuration for 3 jams before I cooked it, which is actually kind of impressive.
 
#38
UPDATE: Played my outdoor cinco de mayo gig this past weekend. Tried turning the Gain (pre) up a little (9 o'clock) and the post volume at half (12 o'clock). Sounded great but the red limiter button kept blinking on whenever I thumped hard. I turned the Gain all the way back to zero (7 o'clock) and still some Limiter blinks. Turned the post down to about 11 o'clock and managed to play four hours with only a couple red blinks. FWIW, the volume drop was audible/noticeable with each change described above. I'm planning to re-read the manual to determine what sets off this "limiter" light but it sucks that I can't crank it without triggering.
 
#39
nickgrooves said:
Wow that's weird because this manual, same section, omits "rms" and just says "450 watts into 4 ohms" ...
behringer () com/assets/BX4500H_P0362_M_EN () pdf
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I can't explain that. I bought mine brand new for 200 bucks at GC and it came with my manual, which states 450w RMS @ 4 ohms. I wouldn't worry about it. The amp puts out plenty of power.
 
#40
nickgrooves said:
UPDATE: Played my outdoor cinco de mayo gig this past weekend. Tried turning the Gain (pre) up a little (9 o'clock) and the post volume at half (12 o'clock). Sounded great but the red limiter button kept blinking on whenever I thumped hard. I turned the Gain all the way back to zero (7 o'clock) and still some Limiter blinks. Turned the post down to about 11 o'clock and managed to play four hours with only a couple red blinks. FWIW, the volume drop was audible/noticeable with each change described above. I'm planning to re-read the manual to determine what sets off this "limiter" light but it sucks that I can't crank it without triggering.
Click to expand...

I run my GAIN straight up noon and my OUTPUT master around 11 - 12:00 for gigging volume. The light is somewhat meaningless IMO. Too low of a GAIN means the amp works too hard for volume. It's like turning the volume on your bass real low.
nickgrooves said:
UPDATE: Played my outdoor cinco de mayo gig this past weekend. Tried turning the Gain (pre) up a little (9 o'clock) and the post volume at half (12 o'clock). Sounded great but the red limiter button kept blinking on whenever I thumped hard. I turned the Gain all the way back to zero (7 o'clock) and still some Limiter blinks. Turned the post down to about 11 o'clock and managed to play four hours with only a couple red blinks. FWIW, the volume drop was audible/noticeable with each change described above. I'm planning to re-read the manual to determine what sets off this "limiter" light but it sucks that I can't crank it without triggering.
Click to expand...

Forget that light, setting the GAIN too low will get you low output. Set the GAIN around noon and Output to desired volume.
 
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