Question about Luthiers

[40Hz]

When did the phrase, 'You have my word', fall out of favor?

After 1968 - or anytime the price tag is over a grand last I heard.

 

[benchpress11782]

Sounds like you're in to deep now to pull out so your going to have make the final payment. Did you sign anything or make any kind of a written agreement? Looks to me like you're being taken but you'll have to wait and see. If your really upset then hire a lawyer to send him a nasty little reminder. Be careful what you post about him, you might find yourself on the receiving end of a law suit.

Nah it won't come to that. I am sure that when I get this bass I will forget about all this. Will never order another though

 

[benchpress11782]

Lots of builders are really good craftsmen, but lousy at customer relations. Running a business requires a diverse skill set and it's the reason many of these skilled craftsmen struggle or even go out of business.

Hope it works out well in the end.

This might make sense in this case. Thanks pal

 

[40Hz]

Hmm that can't be it

Nope.

Do you have a definite delivery date? Or is he being cagey about that too?

 

[benchpress11782]

Out of curiosity, you say he is a very famous luthier, so there must be plenty of people who have had basses built, have you tried asking someone if they received photos during the build?

Yes I have same boat I am in

 

[B-line]

OK OK, I'm gonna take a mere 30 seconds and send a pic of that Bass:

 

[benchpress11782]

" a well known luthier"
Not quite clear on somthing here...
There's a number of posts suggesting fraud, why this from a "well known luthier"?


Seems he would be well-known for fraud if that was the case.

The pictures issue seems strange to me, but I get why some builders don't have the inclination or time in their view.
I've seen basses documented from raw blocks of wood to finished products, but in the end- Its the instrument being jammed in the hands of the new owner that counts, although "scrapbooks" are fun.
IDK if the OP wishes to name the builder, or whether its appropriate or not.
Just seems strange that there would be an issue of getting the right instrument if the builder has a known history.

I just feel that I am paying a lot of money and yes it would be cool to have a little bit of a scrap book of the bass build. Why not right? And why do I have to pay it off in full to see finished product?

 

[gln1955]

I cannot really understand the time frame. It takes less than 30 seconds to take the phone and send a photo of the bass.

And if you dont have the desire as a builder, it is just bad customer service. Just my opinion

What's really odd is that he'll take the time to do it if the OP makes his final payment. That makes you wonder if there is something going on with the build that is not to spec and would be obvious in a picture.

 

[benchpress11782]

This is an odd situation! When I had the bass in my avatar built, I received over 40 pictures along the way that started with the luthier standing with the planks of wood he chose for the bass through completion. I didn't give him the final payment until the bass was completed, so I saw the entire process from beginning to end before the bass was completely paid for. I have 17 of the pictures in a gallery here, and most were posted before I received the bass.

EXACTLY

 

[benchpress11782]

OP, are you aware of any other TB member(s) that had a bass built by this luthier? If so, did he/she/they get progress pics?

Edit: I see @JACink beat me to this comment.

Yes and no

 

[benchpress11782]

Yeah, that was my question.

It seems strange and irksome, but if in the end you get the bass you ordered in the time frame specified, then it should be fine.

Agreed

 

[B-line]

I just feel that I am paying a lot of money and yes it would be cool to have a little bit of a scrap book of the bass build. Why not right? And why do I have to pay it off in full to see finished product?

IDK, because that's his policy I guess, and you didn't have all that straightened out before you sent $$ and gave a go-ahead to start building.

FWIW, I don't think in the least you're being scammed, I think you'll get your bass and hopefully it'll be awesome & you'll be happy.

Next time- if there is one- get the details you want agreed upon first, and if that builder isn't into pics and you are- Find someone else.

 

[benchpress11782]

If you have made any payments on this bass, he should be able to spare 15min to send a few photos. I wouldn't get upset until you get the call that it is not going to be ready in Sept.

Agree

 

[TrevorR]

May just be a curmudgeonly builder, of course, but it's a shame that they seem so reluctant to send even the odd progress pic. Photos like this take at key points in the build get posted up on the Wal Bass Club here or the FB Wal Basses group all the time...

Given the ease of digital photography and the ubiquity of digital cameras it's not like taking and emailing a photo of a key waypoint in a build wastes so much time that a neck doesn't get built, or another bass gets delayed by three extra months... Paul at Wal tends to send a few through the build... neck completed, bookmatched facings glued onto the body core, body ready for the spray booth, ready for assembly, ready for packing up to be shipped. Something like that. That's what, 25 mins wasted in a 24 month build...

And frankly, the enthusiastic free online advertising he gets back for that 25 minutes as recipients share online and others lust over the photos is well worth 25 minutes, or whatever it takes.

Hope it all works out for you.

 

[benchpress11782]

When I am building a bass for a customer I usually send many pics as I go. I think it helps them get a feel for how much work goes into building a bass by hand. I only build a few a year so I do have time to do that.
Some builders have odd business practices but ultimately the goal is to end up with an instrument worthy of the money you spent and the time waiting for its completion. It may be frustrating but I hope in the end you end up with an awesome instrument.

Thank you. And what if I wanted to change something during build? Now I couldn't.

 

[benchpress11782]

I see a potential red flag in progress.

Anytime you're having something custom built, and the person you're dealing with goes dark, or becomes unresponsive to a reasonable request (like an update report or some progess photos) that's never a good sign. It's an almost sure bet something is up. And it won't be anything you're gonna be happy about learning.

Suggestion: tell him you have the balance of the money owed - which you'll be happy to hand him when you pick it up. And then politely ask when you can pick it up. If he insists on receiving full payment in advance of delivery…well…that'll be the giveaway there's a problem you're not being told about.

Unfortunately, there's some people in the custom built music world that seem to go through life with a "business plan" that says: "You hand me a lot of money. And I'll build your ____ when I get around to or feel like it. In the meantime - don't bug me!" And these flakes, BSAs, and con artists are what make it look bad for all the legitimate builders out there.

No red flag I'm sure

 

[benchpress11782]

What I don't understand is why the OP is angry about lack of pictures, when OP says right up front that he can't pay for the bass!

They asked for deposit and I gave one

 

[benchpress11782]

I understand both sides but, after reading thread and learning that in-progress pics are the norm from many well-regarded builders, I side with you. Why is this guy so hung-up on not sharing? Maybe it would set him behind schedule if he did this for everyone? Regardless, you are the customer and the norm is progress pics. Big however... If he is as reputable as you imply (just by virtue of your selecting him, and his being well-known) then why are you worried? Try to relax. If he is reputable as implied, you're going to get a fine bass and you are worrying and causing drama for nothing. Yes, it's your right as a paying customer but chill for your own sake.

Thanks. I agree at the end of the day. Just don't get it

 

[B-line]

A cool as the WIP shots are, (finished too) they mean nada to me, I'm jamming the basses.

 

[Eilif]

RED FLAG!

No pics no cash. I don't care how famous the builder is, it's completely ridiculous to demand payment before proof of completion. The whole point of money down and balance upon completion is that it balances protection of buyer and seller. Payment without proof of completion negates that blance completely. You might as well have paid all the $ up front.

My suspicion (and I realize I could be wrong) is that something about the instrument is either not complete or not the way you are going to like it. Taking your money gives the builder the upper hand and that is not appropriate. This is not 1990, and the builder clearly has the ability to take pics. If he wants you to pay for the product, the onus is on him to prove to you that the product is ready to ship. Talkbass has plenty reports of builders that delivered lots of products to satisfied customers and then seemingly all-at-once disappeared and left customers with no money and no product.

Even if this isn't the case and the bass is built to perfection, there's no reason for customers to collectively let builders get awaywith this kind of poor customer service.

Stick you your guns and get the pics before you send your cash. It doesn't have too be too confrontational either. You can simply say something like:
"I'm sorry, I'm not comfortable sending the remaining $______ until I've had a chance to see pictures of the front, back and neck of the instrument."