I think it may have to do w/ the very unique set-up of side LED's on this bass.
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Question about Luthiers
- Thread starter benchpress11782
- Start date
Hey, that's the way I would approach it also, I'm just offering the above as a possible scenario for the OP to consider. We don't know the builder or the communications that have transpired between them. Some customers are cool, others need some ongoing info exchange, and others still are like neurotic brides buying wedding gowns. I fully agree that pics ought to be forthcoming in some form, but it's possible that the builder has taken the stance that this is becoming a problematic order (rightly or wrongly) and may be unwilling to make any changes at all unless they are first paid to conclude the previously agreed to deal.
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You've done a wonderful job of turning the buyer into the bad guy.I dont know where you work, but normally after a task is done (for example after sanding or finishing a guitar) you take a short pause. In that pause a pic is no distraction. And even if it a distraction for them, it is still not a good customer
service.
I work as a musician, my office is on a stage riser. And actually it IS a distraction when someone wants to take a pic. Different than bass-building, but you are not a luthier so you can't comment on whether or not a particular builder wants to bother with snapping pics. Its a fact- Some do not.
The deal is that the person pays for a custom fitted instrument for them. I would say most person would want to know if the luthier keeps that vision that they set at the beginning of the building process.
Once again- if the specs are not nailed down beforehand, and one is not confident of that builders ability to carry out as planned, you haven't done your homework.
It is also not comparable to a baby, since you didn't order one.
Even if they don't mean anything to you, you know what the status of the bass is and what to expect from it.
One doesn't order babies, one plans them. (Ideally) You plan a bass too, how you want it-the woods, electronics, finish, switching etc. I knew the status of my bass. I was given a lead time, and even when it ran long- i knew what I would be getting.
Also getting pictures is industry standard for luthiers in my experience.
Your experience is limited, then- There is no "Industry Standard, a silly term becasue an Independent Builder stays independent because that's how they choose to be. Non -Industry.
Here's a partial quote from the brilliant builder who made the yellow bass I posted:
After Tobias got swallowed up by Gibson, I interviewed with G&L, Tom Anderson, Ibanez Custom Shop, and Ernie Ball. None of them were a good fit for me at that time. The fact is that those companies are so large that I was gonna end up being one of a 100 man team starting at the bottom sanding bodies for 8 hours a day. Ugh!!!
As it were, he sent pics, which as I said mean nothing to me, other than being kinda cool. I play the bass, that's why it was built. I don't sit on a sofa looking at pics of it.
The OP stated that HE wants pics and would like a scrapbook- Fine- He should have nailed that before commissioning. I would have if that were my thing. Its not.
He'll get his bass, he'll kick a** w/it, and hopefully, he'll forget all about his yearning for pics.
Or not!
So you're whole argument is that it's simple and takes almost no time to send pics ... but then you want the builder to open themselves up to the possibility of having to make changes this late in the game?
I think this might be a reason the builder doesn't send pics before payment. You already agreed upon what you want in the bass, and the builder clearly has a reputation of high-quality work. What happens when he sends you photos, and you turn around and say "you know, I know I said I wanted (XXX feature/specs), but really I think maybe I want (XXX feature/specs) instead. I'm already paying you a lot of money, that won't take you long to change, right?" and you hold his payment ransom until he "fixes" something that is likely unnecessary.
Now, I'm not accusing you of doing something like that ... but I can see the argument from the builders point of view if that is why they are choosing not to disclose photos.
That's a pretty good way to look at it!
I assume everyone needs hand-holding, some more than others. I may be in the latter category, myself... But if a guy is parting with a couple/few thousand smackers, he deserves for more than his hand to be held. ;-) It ain't Fender. Even so, if he accepted the money, he accepted the baggage that came with the customer. If he doesn't want to do any more work for the guy, he should say so. But really, a couple of phone pics? They take less time than reading these posts.
BS, pal.
Read what I wrote, then re-think.
I never said the "OP was a bad guy"
I stated (2) FACTS;
Some luthiers don't care to take pics of WIP.
The OP should have nailed down that he needed/wanted pics BEFORE commissioning the build.
Now whats your agenda?
When someone takes a picture ? Why are you comparing apples and oranges.
Is it a distraction when you finished your task and then YOU take a picture, you not someone else? I hardly doubt so.
And I don't really care if the builder wants to snap pics, it is good customer service.
You can nail the specs beforehand and you can be confident of the builder, but sometimes it doesn't work out the way a buyer imagines. Pictures along the way, help getting a clearer picture and fixing it, before it gets much more expensive to fix.
I have asked several luthiers and pretty much everyone makes pictures during the process. Some more detailed, some to a lesser extend, but all provide at least some form of body and neck, finished body and neck, bass finished. Again. If you choose to be non-industry, and don't take pictures I think your customer service sucks.
Again your builder sent pics. So you are actually confirming that it is the usual thing to do as a luthier. Just because they don't mean something to you doesn't mean it shouldn't be there. Pictures are good customer service. I don't care if a cashier greets me or grunts at me, but one thing is good customer service, and the other one isn't.As it were, he sent pics, which as I said mean nothing to me, other than being kinda cool. I play the bass, that's why it was built. I don't sit on a sofa looking at pics of it.
The OP stated that HE wants pics and would like a scrapbook- Fine- He should have nailed that before commissioning. I would have if that were my thing. Its not.
He'll get his bass, he'll kick a** w/it, and hopefully, he'll forget all about his yearning for pics.
Or not!
Agreed, a reasonable balance can usually be found.That's a pretty good way to look at it!
Hand holding and various forms of client care, of course, but anything that may be referred to as "baggage", no. Paying money doesn't entitle a customer to be an overbearing dick, nuisance, best friend, etc... It has to be cordial but distant enough to be professional, and being professional does not flow in only one direction. No one is perfect and I'm having timeline issues of my own on the K models, but I did have one customer who became a bridezilla on one of our regular models and I simply sent him his deposit back and said he would have to find another builder to get his bass. He was caught entirely off guard by the refund and claimed I had no right to do it, but that's how it works. Deposit = expectation of bass. Refunded deposit = cancelled order, regardless of which party instigated the refund. I hope I did the next builder a favor and this customer changes his approach, because he's the kind of guy that makes you question whether you want to be a builder at all. I remember Dan Atkinson talking about customers like this being why he threw in the towel on building custom basses, and it's why a lot of builders prefer you deal with a retailer instead of with them - so they don't have to deal with the customer directly.
Agreed. Snapping pics is a daily thing for guitar builders. I have a thousand+ of guitar pics on my phone at any given time, showing various bodies, builds, shielding, whatever... sending a few to the customer isn't some sort of ordeal.
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Yes, my builder(s) sent pics. No I am not confirming that it is the usual thing to do. As a matter of fact, of the basses I've spec'd and had built (2) sent pics, (2) did not, I didn't request them from any of the builders.
So don't twist words to try & make your points, because your points are not valid.
Where is your info about how many builders do, and how many don't? There's a lot of builders, and not every customer is like a little kid waiting for his new Xmas toy. I order basses, get specs & a rendition, I'm good to go.
I've done this before.
Good customer service means dealing with a reliable & trustworthy builder, that's all I ever do. I'm a good customer, in that I know exactly what I want, they're a good provider in that they'll build it.
Of course, by the same token, I see posts where players spend endless hours talking about the right pick guard, so...
Get your pics, live large!
SOP from any builder that's worth salt. Some take it to the next level, and offer to take the axe back (maybe minus shipping) if the buyer isn't happy.
No risks, IMO if one communicates well and knows what they are after.
I asked 12 builders in Germany and Austria. Every single one sends pictures during the process. Again it is not about that the customer need the picture, but rather that he knows what he physically gets.
No, a reliable and trustworthy builder is his job. Not scamming people and delivering the product on time isn't good customer service. Good customer service means good communication, the ability to sense what the client needs and advice if the client is unexperienced. Good communication for me, means pictures of the process, notifications when the bass is finished (for example one month prior) and pictures of the finished bass.
If not it isn't good customer service - at least for me personally.
Again it doesn't matter how good the customer is (personally I think every customer that brings in money and isn't rude is a "good customer"), it is about the customer service of the builder.
The specs are agreed beforehand, wether the customer knows exactly what he wants or it is agreed upon after some discussions doesn't matter, but pictures mean good customer service.
Ok, then, 12 builders in Austria & Germany settle this question!
(jk)
Well, I fail to see an argument here, mainly because I have not had ANY issues with (4) Basses I've had built, and didn't care or need pix along the way, so I'm good. Others not liking the way a builder operates- no pics, surly 'tude, raspy voice, whatever- Move on!
The OP I guess has to (learn to) take care of business so he won't be unhappy. He mentioned from the get -go that he used a well-known builder, so anything that vexes him is something he forgot to put on his checklist.
It happens.
I'm having a bass built by a well known luthier, but he stated flat out that it's very slow in the beginning. Plus, I'm way down his list. But I love his basses and am happy to wait. Plus we're friends on FB and I get to see all the pics of the basses he's making for others. That just makes me gas for it even more.
Stay in contact with him. Pics aside, if he's in regular contact with updates, I wouldn't worry too much.
Stay in contact with him. Pics aside, if he's in regular contact with updates, I wouldn't worry too much.
I think some folks are mixing up two separate issues.
1) Whether or not the buyer should ask for pictures of the completed instrument before paying the balance.
and
2) The question of "Changes" to an instrument before accepting it.
I think we're still unclear over whether the OP means:
-Changes to an agreed upon set of specs
or
-Changes to rectify possible flaws they might see in the pictures.
Regardess of the answer, question 2 has no effect on whether or not any buyer should (and I believe they should) demand pictorial proof of completion before paying the balance owed.
You can argue the merits of both, but they are two separate issues.
1) Whether or not the buyer should ask for pictures of the completed instrument before paying the balance.
and
2) The question of "Changes" to an instrument before accepting it.
I think we're still unclear over whether the OP means:
-Changes to an agreed upon set of specs
or
-Changes to rectify possible flaws they might see in the pictures.
Regardess of the answer, question 2 has no effect on whether or not any buyer should (and I believe they should) demand pictorial proof of completion before paying the balance owed.
You can argue the merits of both, but they are two separate issues.
