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Question about speakers....

#21
listen to what BillFM suggests here as well;

"What you'll have is an imbalance. A 1x15 can't take as much power as a 4x10, so they should not be the same impedance. A 1x15 and 2x10 would be a good match."

Instead of sending the same amounts of power into both cabs at 4 ohms each, why not try the 8 ohm 115 w/410 to get about 2.6 ohms of your Eden head. I did this with a 8 ohm 210xlt w/4 ohn 410xlt. Maybe you won't stress your 15 cab so much then. Or will the 4 ohm 410 just negate the 115 8 ohm altogether? You guys tell me.

Are we still on track with your goal in our suggestions? Let us know how it all works out.
 
#23
B-string said:
Looks like your best bet is to contact Peavey about a 4 ohm replacment 15" for one cab. Of course if you gig with the 410 and both 115's you will have to swap back to the 8 ohm. There is no way to "re-wire" the speaker's voice coil in the field.
Click to expand...
If the cab has a real crossover (rather than just a high-pass filter on the tweeter) it won't work right with a 4 ohm woofer.
 
#24
Ok, I guess I am real confused. I cant get my mind around a 115 and a 410 being unbalanced if they both accept the same load. Why is this setup a bass players taboo? Thats what I am getting from a majority of the responses....
Koy
 
#25
k5koy said:
Ok, I guess I am real confused. I cant get my mind around a 115 and a 410 being unbalanced if they both accept the same load. Why is this setup a bass players taboo? Thats what I am getting from a majority of the responses....
Koy
Click to expand...

It's because the 115 cannot handle as much power as the 410. If they are at the same load (4ohm) they would be getting equal power from the head and the 115 would probably not handle it as well as the 410. By having an 8ohm 115, there is less power going to the 115 and more going to the 410 (which can handle it). I hope that makes sense.

Also, you cannot "re-wire" an 8ohm cab to be a 4ohm cab without replacing the drivers and probably the crossover. It would be much less work (and probably cheaper) to just trade it for a 4ohm cab rather than try to convert it.

In all honesty, you will probably not have much of a difference in sound than you already have. I would just keep it as is if it sounds good.
 
#26
billfitzmaurice said:
If the cab has a real crossover (rather than just a high-pass filter on the tweeter) it won't work right with a 4 ohm woofer.
Click to expand...

Agreed there will be a hole in the response, but it may be one the OP can live with/not notice with the 410? Just offering a suggestion if the OP is determined to do this.

If you have a 410 (more piston area and greater power handling and combined piston throw) with a 115 of the same impedance you ask it to do the same work as the 410 (it does not have the piston area or power handling of the 4 10"s put together). Not even touching on the phase problems between different driver sizes/ configurations as some people like the combo.
 
#27
No I think you're right - the standard config for many of us is a 4 x 10 cab driven in parallel with a 1 x 15 cab, and both cabs should be same impedance, normally 8ohm each, which when driven together means a 4 ohm loading.
If you swapped 15" cabs with TobyG then you'd have two matched 4ohm cabs yiou want and he'd have your 15" 8ohm cab so you'd both have matched pairs - yours would be 4 each and his would be 8 each. You would need to have a really good amp to run at a resultant 2 ohm load, whereas his would run 2 x 8 ohms in parallel giving 4 ohm load.
Virtually all the mainstream bass amp companies offer same impedance 4x10's + 1x15's and 2x10's, they are designed to be used as pairs.
 
#29
Al Heeley said:
No I think you're right - the standard config for many of us is a 4 x 10 cab driven in parallel with a 1 x 15 cab, and both cabs should be same impedance, normally 8ohm each, which when driven together means a 4 ohm loading.
If you swapped 15" cabs with TobyG then you'd have two matched 4ohm cabs yiou want and he'd have your 15" 8ohm cab so you'd both have matched pairs - yours would be 4 each and his would be 8 each. You would need to have a really good amp to run at a resultant 2 ohm load, whereas his would run 2 x 8 ohms in parallel giving 4 ohm load.
Virtually all the mainstream bass amp companies offer same impedance 4x10's + 1x15's and 2x10's, they are designed to be used as pairs.
Click to expand...

Hmmm, ok, either I have failed to make myself clear, or I am still confused. You see, the Eden WT500 is a biamp. In other words, it has 2 separate amps. 250w out on each side. Either side will easily accept either a 4 or 8ohm load. Even at the same time. However, there are no separate volume controls. This was not an issue running the 2 - 115 cabs, as it was still loading at 4 ohm on that channel. I was getting the nice low end response from the 115's in combination with the Mids & highs accentuated on the other channel from the 410. Its was a perfect marriage, and the tone is just what I was looking for. In the current situation, three cabs are not possible due to the limited room. And when I put the 8ohm 115 on 1 channel and the 4ohm 410 on the other, the 115 gets completely washed out, even using the balance knob. So I figured, and thats where I tend to run into trouble, that if I added a 300w 4ohm 115 in combination with the 4ohm 410, I might be able to get that tone. Now I am starting to understand that either this is impossible, or I am unable to relate my thought process properly. Maybe this time, I got it...Hope so anyway...
Koy
 
#31
B-string said:
They are offered does not mean it is the best way to go, manufactuers will sell you what you want. ;)
Click to expand...

Mostly it's the music stores fault for these configs.

It takes less investment to display one rig with a 4x10 and a 1x15 then it is to display two rigs, one 2 4x10 cabs and the other 2 1x15 cabs.


Two the same cabs in one rig on display... I hardly ever see that in a store around here.

Maybe they should work with mirrors.
 
#33
B-string said:
Agreed there will be a hole in the response
Click to expand...
That's not the problem. Using the wrong impedance driver doesn't just shift the crossover frequency, it completely disrupts the crossover function. Worst case scenario: fried amp.
k5koy said:
So I figured, and thats where I tend to run into trouble, that if I added a 300w 4ohm 115 in combination with the 4ohm 410, I might be able to get that tone. Now I am starting to understand that either this is impossible, or I am unable to relate my thought process properly. Maybe this time, I got it...Hope so anyway...
Koy
Click to expand...
Get an 8 ohm 2x10 to go with your 8 ohm 1x15. Impedance is not the problem here, it's far more complicated.
 
#34
billfitzmaurice said:
That's not the problem. Using the wrong impedance driver doesn't just shift the crossover frequency, it completely disrupts the crossover function. Worst case scenario: fried amp.
[snip]
Click to expand...

??? Are you implying the the uncovered frequency would cause a short in the woofer side (horn unchanged impedance) of the crossover? Or the unchanged "tweeter side"? These are LRC's?
 
#35
k5koy said:
I was getting the nice low end response from the 115's in combination with the Mids & highs accentuated on the other channel from the 410. Its was a perfect marriage, and the tone is just what I was looking for.
Click to expand...


Even though it is still a 4 ohm load - a single 4 ohm 15" cab WILL NOT cover the same ground as two 8 ohm 15" cabs (cabs being the same size/design).

Even though you are getting the increased power from the amp, you are losing the sonic coupling and increased cone area of the 2 15's together.
 
#37
B-string said:
They are offered does not mean it is the best way to go, manufactuers will sell you what you want. ;)
Click to expand...
If I was a manufacturer I'd make what i think would sell best.
If there was a more optimum combination of cabs, I'm pretty sure one of the big manufacturers would have worked out by now that they could dominate the market by offering tweaked impedance cabs to optimise pairing, say a 12 ohm 4 x 10 + a 6 ohm 1 x 15 working together for example, or am i being naiive?
 
#38
Al Heeley said:
If I was a manufacturer I'd make what i think would sell best.
If there was a more optimum combination of cabs, I'm pretty sure one of the big manufacturers would have worked out by now that they could dominate the market by offering tweaked impedance cabs to optimise pairing, say a 12 ohm 4 x 10 + a 6 ohm 1 x 15 working together for example, or am i being naiive?
Click to expand...
yeah, you're being naive ;) but that's ok. the way it's shaken out is impedances in squares of 2, and any other impedances are a very hard sell. also, the idea that a 115 is better for lows and a 410 is better for mids and highs is a myth based entirely on looks.
 
#39
What about using a huge resistor as a third cab instead of modding that 115? You still have the 4x10 and 115, and a third load to keep things in balance?
Btw, can 't you rewire the 410?

Stupid idea maybe, but this is the first thing that popped in my mind...
 
#40
tony_clifton said:
What about using a huge resistor as a third cab instead of modding that 115? You still have the 4x10 and 115, and a third load to keep things in balance?
Btw, can 't you rewire the 410?

Stupid idea maybe, but this is the first thing that popped in my mind...
Click to expand...


The resistor would be a complete waste of time.

Most amps do not double their wattage output going from 8 to 4 ohms. And even if they did, you double the wattage just to give the 8 ohm cab only half of it (because the other half goes to the resistor). So, you are back where you started without having to go through the trouble.

If we are talking about an amp that does not double it's wattage, now you are actually CUTTING power to the 8 ohm cab - does not seem wise does it ?

Also - NO you cannot rewire a 4 ohm 4X10 to be an 8 ohm 4X10 - can't be done
 

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