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question about Spider exercise! and pain involved

K

Kamael83

Dec 7, 2011
140
2
Cork City, Ireland
#1
I started fighting with spider and straight away it detected couple of flaws in my left hand...

First : someone said to hold notes long enough so they will overlap one after another... While i`m doing this i`m starting to have small cramp in the muscle below my thumb (the big one)...
And generally my thumb is starting to complain very quick after i start practice...

My question is: Is it normal? I was trying to find out something about hand positions etc...I think i`m doing it more or less right... while i`m playing I`m focusing lower the strength im putting in pressing the strings to the minimum.....

That cramp....is similar to the one when you will grab something with your thumb and index finger and squeeze for a while....
 
#3
ill try to do that :)
I dont think my thumb is so weak that it can`t support 4 fingers pressing on strings for few sec...or it could be? i mean position is quite awkward for fingers i suppose..

My question would be (apart from main one) are there bass players here who had or still having a problem with sore muscle under the base of their thumbs?
 
#6
iammr2 said:
Are you stretching out your hands and fingers before you start? Might help. Do a search for strtching exercises.
Click to expand...

+ 100. This exercise should only be done when the hand is well warmed up.






Kamael83 said:
So it is normal? i am doing it slowely and im stopping as soon as it starts to feel uncomfortable...gonna put streaching into my routine as well...i just wonder if its natural or is it some kind of hand position / techinique related issue
Click to expand...


Playing the bass should never involve pain. The spider exercise can put a lot of stress on the hand, when doing it for the first time. My advice is to only do the exercise for a very short time once a day, until your hand gets used to it. Then gradually increase the time in small increments. Also, make sure you do it high on the neck, again until your hand adapts.
 
#7
Kamael83 said:
I started fighting with spider and straight away it detected couple of flaws in my left hand...

First : someone said to hold notes long enough so they will overlap one after another... While i`m doing this i`m starting to have small cramp in the muscle below my thumb (the big one)...
And generally my thumb is starting to complain very quick after i start practice...

My question is: Is it normal? I was trying to find out something about hand positions etc...I think i`m doing it more or less right... while i`m playing I`m focusing lower the strength im putting in pressing the strings to the minimum.....

That cramp....is similar to the one when you will grab something with your thumb and index finger and squeeze for a while....
Click to expand...


First off from me...Spider exercises are an advanced exercise if you hold the notes to over lap so do not try this. The reason not to try this, as you are finding out, is the hand pushes against the thumb, rather than the finger push to the fretboard, and the thumb pushes against the neck rather than just rest against it.
All this pressure strains the base of the thumb, which if you continue with may lead to injury. It is the same as trying to do push ups, using the palms to take the load is easier than the finger, and using the fingers is easier than using the thumbs and there are those that can do thumb push ups.

Warm up and practice easier exercises like triads, arpeggios, scales etc and when you can do them with ease, then go to spider exercise.
But just play them light, do not attempt to hold down any exercise till you can hold down the simpler exercise of triads etc. It is simply the spans that are the problems in spider exercises and the very thing they seek to address is the vey thing that will cause you injury and problems...it's a catch 22 if approached wrong.
 
#8
OK dude / when something hurts STOP ..your body is speaking ! More to the point, I haven't googled "spider exercises yet " but more importantly playing position is essential to dial in. I just pulled out my JDroz for strap length and on that bass 43-46 inches is "for me about right . I know on some of my smaller basses 32-34 is what works best. PLEASE adjust the length of your strap by 1 to 3 inches lower to start ...cause my guess is too high! i have friends and I used to play with a higher bass but "for me , I guess most of the time ... I do not play any lower that a 35 -36 in. strap but that's me and I am 200+ and 6'. Some of my small skinny basses are more like 32-34 so experiment I am sure you will come to a consensus. Fender basses have one spot etc. every bass will be different. Find your own comfort zone.

you just signed up last year..take your time and enjoy!!! ... the most imortant lesson.!!!

playin 50 yrs
 
#10
Concerning the left (or fretting) hand technique, I've suggested the spider exercise a number of times. It's good for practicing the one finger per fret technique and the overall left hand coordination, as you use all fingers in the exercise.

Code:
The spider:

G: -----7-----8-----5-----6-- (Repeat x times)
D: --5-----6-----7-----8-----
A: --------------------------
E: --------------------------
I R M P R I P M


-----7-----8-----5-----6--
--------------------------
--5-----6-----7-----8-----
--------------------------

-----7-----8-----5-----6--
--------------------------
--------------------------
--5-----6-----7-----8-----
Focus on learning the first line properly (on the D and G strings, only one tabbed out fully) before trying the other two incorporating string skipping, as they're harder and require a longer stretch.

Here's a variation of the spider that I've come up with as a complement. In this, all intervals you play are different:

Code:
Altered spider:

G: ------8-----7-----5-----6--- (repeat)
D: ---5-----6-----8-----7------
A: ----------------------------
E: ----------------------------
I P M R P I R M

You get the rest of that I think...


Then I have a good warm-up exercise too:

Code:
-1-------------4-5-------------2-3-------------6-7-------------4-5-------
---2---------3-----4---------3-----4---------5-----6---------5-----6-----
-----3-----2---------3-----4---------5-----4---------5-----6---------7---
-------4-1-------------2-5-------------6-3-------------4-7-------------8-ect....

I M R P I M R P P R M I P R M I I M R P etc.
(Left hand fingering: I=Index, M=Middle, R=Ring, P=Pinky)
Feel free to post more exercises in this thread. I wouldn't mind learning some new ones either.



Warning: Be careful and listen to your body when practicing the spider exercise. Don't stretch too much if you feel you can't do it, as it may be hazardous. Develop the flexibility slowly. You don't learn to do a split in one day either, right?

this is spider
 
#11
Another things you might want to look at is your touch. With electric, to get a note, all you have to do is get the string to touch the fret.
So your goal, to lessen the amount of stress on the fingers while playing is to only push the string down as hard as you have to (i.e. to the point that the string touches the fret and does not buzz).
You may need to have your bass set up if you feel like you have to exert a lot of pressure to get the string down.
 
#12
King Of Suede said:
Another things you might want to look at is your touch. With electric, to get a note, all you have to do is get the string to touch the fret.
So your goal, to lessen the amount of stress on the fingers while playing is to only push the string down as hard as you have to (i.e. to the point that the string touches the fret and does not buzz).
You may need to have your bass set up if you feel like you have to exert a lot of pressure to get the string down.
Click to expand...


That was my first thought i had after i realized that my hand is getting tired very fast while im doing this exercise....I do push strings too hard and I started to working on it since...yesterday haha....I`m sure it`s one of the main reasons why my thumb is getting tired.
I`m total beginner playing on Fender by squire J Bass affinity series... Lowering action a bit might help
 
#15
Kamael83 said:
I`m total beginner
Click to expand...

In that case, I'd leave the spider exercise for the time being, and concentrate on merely fretting the notes, always being aware of just how little pressure is actually required to do so. To get an idea of this, fret a note without the thumb on the back of the neck. Practice your scales, starting with different fingers. You need to give your hands time to adapt to playing the bass before jumping in the deep end with the spider exercise. Otherwise you may be asking for trouble.
 
#17
Hand pressure issues are normally thumb related so look at that thumb position and understand that the thumb only rests against the neck it does not form a hold with the fingers to grip or hold the neck. In times of stress or being over worked the hand will attempt to hold the neck through increased pressure on the thumb, so be wary of it.
 
#18
Kamael83 said:
I started fighting with spider and straight away it detected couple of flaws in my left hand...

First : someone said to hold notes long enough so they will overlap one after another... While i`m doing this i`m starting to have small cramp in the muscle below my thumb (the big one)...
And generally my thumb is starting to complain very quick after i start practice...

My question is: Is it normal? I was trying to find out something about hand positions etc...I think i`m doing it more or less right... while i`m playing I`m focusing lower the strength im putting in pressing the strings to the minimum.....

That cramp....is similar to the one when you will grab something with your thumb and index finger and squeeze for a while....
Click to expand...


i'd say that's a normal pain area for a new thing for the hands ...it's the same area that will bother a guitar player new tp barre chords.


don't over do it!
 
#19
I`m not trying to hold the neck of my bass with my hand...bass is either hanging on the strap or more often rests on my leg while im sitting...but you have to press strings against bass neck ----> your thumb on the other side of the neck don`t you? i know the pressure has to be as small as possible (and i`m working on it every day since that issue came up...and i can see that if i`m very aware of how hard i`m pressing on the strings i can do spider for longer) but still you use your thumb as a .....base for pressure put by rest of your fingers....so you kind of have to press against them with your thumb right?
 
#20
Imagine your bass was made out of thin papermachè :)

This here helped me with fretting lighter:

Invalid Link Removed

What also helped me was the decision to lighten up my touch in general.
Though I only concentrated on my right hand first, I soon noticed that my left also lightened up. Lighter touch also allows you to have lower action = less fretting pressure needed - but it's not everyone's cup of tea, and it's also a question of style to some extend.
 

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