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question for the masses

K

kcolyar

Feb 28, 2007
228
52
Moab, Ut 84532
#1
How many of you felt that your style or sound improved when you changed to a better quality of bass? I know there has been great music made with crap instruments, but have you ever gotten to a point where you felt you needed a better quality instrument.

I know that some of you own several thousand dollar basses, is it really worth it? I ask because alot of my influences or playing Zons or Modulas or other high end basses and I cant get the sound I want that is close to theirs.

Just wanted to get some opinions. How many of you when you upgraded from $400 range to $2000 felt you improved. I just dont seem to want to practice when the tone is not there and the neck warps or buzzes, or any other problems that arise from lesser quality instruments.
 
#4
A more expensive bass does not guarantee you'll be a better player or that your tone will be improved. I've heard some very bad bassists with really crappy tone playing high end basses. I've also heard some killer players with great tone playing low end stuff ....

A lot has to do with the bass, the way it's set up, the strings, the amp, and of course, the players talents. I have a number of pretty pricey basses and several el-cheapo's and they are all good basses, IMO. I more or less sound like "me" (for better or for worse ;)) when I play, regardless of the price point of the axe. But I refuse to play a bass that can't be properly set up ..... if the set up is good, the bass should be very able to do the job for you.

You don't need to spend big coin just to solve your problem. There are a ton of very good instruments out there in the $500 - $1,000 range ....... :cool:
 
#5
Yes. My 'better' bass means I can play faster, tighter and due to its unique sonic properties I can count on it remaining clear and clean all the way down to low B. I can count on it being even toned across the fretboard and down and I can play my 5th string with the same 'action' as my other 4 strings. Therefore how I play and what I play have benefited.
 
#6
:hmm: I've certainly experienced the opposite.

Some high end (not necessarily very expensive) basses can reveal minor inaccuracies and inconsistencies in one's playing, which "less dynamic sounding" basses may well not make as obvious.

Some years ago, I bought an Alembic Rogue, which had a very "revealing" tone. I discovered then that the dynamics of plucking with alternating fingers and fretting with different strength fingers, could actually be clearly heard on this bass :(. If you have been well trained and can play very "cleanly", this is probably a good thing, as you shape the sound better.

If, OTOH, you're a "clumsy to average" player (like me ;)), you might find that you'll sound much better on a basic (Fender style) instrument. I'm (partly) ashamed to say that this is the reason that I only have non-boutique instruments now (despite some of my basses being quite expensive).

So, in answer to your question, a "better" bass sometines calls for better playing to make it sound "better" - does that make sense :p!?
 
#7
I played a Rickenbacker since the early 90's. I bought a used Mark Hoppus signature precision bass for cheap off E-Bay about a year and a half ago, and it has become my main gigging bass. I just love the fatass tone of the Hoppus, it doesn't have the feel of the Ric, but it aint half bad by any means.

I'm diggin the hell out of my "lesser quality instrument".
 
#8
Hmmmm, these topics usually turn into boutique bashing threads, but that's never stopped me from participating.

I never touch tone because it's such a subjective thing and there is no real "better" or "worse".

One must assume that if luthiers are charging more than Fender, they're offering something and it must be worth the price if the luthier is staying in business. Sometimes the price tag reflects strong demand, like Fodera. Sometimes the price tag reflects the amount of labor that went into the instrument, accurately executing the wants and needs of the buyer.

If you want something that plays easier, there are a lot of luthiers who plane the fingerboard to perfection and add an equally perfect fret job. Then they often choose the right strings and set it up nicely before it ships. Quite often you'll get something that plays extremely well out of the FedEx or UPS box, although sometimes climate changes in shipping can alter things. If you're the type of player who stays below the 7th fret, you obviously don't need something that plays amazing at the 24th fret.

Luthiers also work hard at using the right construction to get an amazing low B. As another member mentioned, a low B that's THICK but doesn't require you to raise the action or upgrade to thicker strings. With the right construction, you can get a lethal low B with consistency that most players will never know.

Are you comfortable playing your bass for several hours on end? I may not be touring the globe, but my bands often have me working for hours on end. A bass that's easy on my frame is a must. Quite often, bassists will state that "heavier means it sounds better and you're much manlier...and more heavier makes it sound more better and you're even manlier!" My last bass, a fretless CB Ball 4 probably weighs about 7lbs with no shortage of tone and I can play it all night, which is good because there's a good chance a band or two will make me play it all night.
 
#10
For me, an expensive bass usually means better playability and sound, and usually a crisper more focused, dynamic (as some have already said) sound that helps reveal where I'm making mistakes. I have nothing against people who play Fenders, Squires, SX's, Benaventes, Foderas or anything inbetween. But I'm also a sucker for beautiful woods and exclusiveness :)
 
#11
Thanks for the replies. I was just wondering what of peoples opinions where. I think I want a decent frteless, I just don't know if I could justify a $4000 Zon instead of a $800 Ibanez, Yamaha, Carvin or Fender. I tend to think you get what you pay for in a lot of circumstances.
 
#12
kcolyar said:
Thanks for the replies. I was just wondering what of peoples opinions where. I think I want a decent frteless, I just don't know if I could justify a $4000 Zon instead of a $800 Ibanez, Yamaha, Carvin or Fender. I tend to think you get what you pay for in a lot of circumstances.
Click to expand...

I agree that, in general, you do get what you pay for.

However, there is also the Law of Diminishing Returns to consider. Is an $8000 Fodera really 10 times better than a $800 Ibanez? Although I think I'd probably sound (and quite possibly play) better on a Fodera, I don't think my playing and sound would be 1/10 of that on an Ibanez. So I say no.

To that end, you shouldn't spend $4000 on a Zon if you don't want it for the right reasons. The Zon will, in all likelihood, sound and play wonderfully, but your $800 Whatever should be fine too. If you want the custom experience with the chance to choose your components, influence the design process to a certain extent, and have an instrument that in some ways is functional art, then get the Zon. If you just need a decent fretless, there is a world of options well below half of what the Zon would cost.
 
#13
When I first started, the difference between beginner and pro basses was astronomical. I definitely had a much easier time playing my first Precision than my $50 Framus Strato-Bass. But nowadays, the gulf between pro and beginner basses isn't all that wide, and I don't think there is as much to be gained as there used to be.
 
#14
kcolyar said:
Thanks for the replies. I was just wondering what of peoples opinions where. I think I want a decent frteless, I just don't know if I could justify a $4000 Zon instead of a $800 Ibanez, Yamaha, Carvin or Fender. I tend to think you get what you pay for in a lot of circumstances.
Click to expand...

You get what you pay for, but the question remains: What are you paying for??

Every bass on the planet is made from wood, with metal hardware, and some magnets wrapped with copper wire. I think the difference in quality of materials is significant between a $150.00 bass and a $1,500.00 bass, but not so great between a $2,000 bass and a $20,000 bass. There comes a price point where the absolute finest of materials can be purchased and assembled and any thing over and above that is strictly aesthetic.

Is the neck fashioned from the tree of knowledge?? Will it imbue you with some sort of supernatural ability??

Is the bridge forged from 100% pure unobtainium?? The only known sample to have fallen to earth from the stars above??

Was the entire thing carved by hand with an X-acto knife by the pope himself over the course of 50 years??

Some people want, and more importantly can afford all the bells and whistles. I don't personally feel that bells and whistles make a better bass than quality wood, metal hardware, and magnets wrapped in copper wire.

Of course: YMMV, and IMHO.
 
#15
kcolyar said:
Thanks for the replies. I was just wondering what of peoples opinions where. I think I want a decent frteless, I just don't know if I could justify a $4000 Zon instead of a $800 Ibanez, Yamaha, Carvin or Fender. I tend to think you get what you pay for in a lot of circumstances.
Click to expand...

Only you can answer that question. However, if you're looking to move up to a much more expensive level of instrument than what you're used to and having trouble or questions about justifying it to yourself, I'd strongly recommend looking at used instruments. You can probably find a used Zon fretless in the $1500 range, find out for yourself how much difference (or not) it made in your playing, and not lose your shirt selling it if you found that it was not worth it to you.

Mike
 
#16
Yes, I think my playing improved when I bought my Pedulla thunderbass. The neck is MUCH thinner than my Fender PBass or my G&L L2500, and is VERY comfortable to play. I am also pleased with the smoothness of the sound, so I am more inclined to practice using this bass. Of course, I upgraded from the $1000 - $1500 to $4000 range ($2100 used), but I think the same thing applies.

The question of "needing" a better quality bass is quite subjective. You might find that a better quality bass facilitates better technique, tone, ergonomics, etc., which may help your playing. Having to fight the issues you mentioned make playing / practicing uncomfortable. I can play my Pedulla for hours, with no issues.

+1 on looking for used basses, especially from folks around here. I got my Pedulla for $2100, which although used, is much less than the $4k (or more!) list price. Let someone else take the depreciation hit, and you can get a really good bass for considerably less than the list price.

imp
 
#17
i went the other way...i had a mid-range ibanez (K5), and "downgraded" to an sx. i love it. i wanted to explore the many sounds of a jazz bass...and for some reason, i haven't found a "real" jazz bass that feels as good.

i'm sure there is a bass out there that will wow me and inspire me to improve my playing. for now, tho', i can't think of playing anything else. even my other basses just sit in my room, looking forlorn. :(
 
#18
I discovered I was slopping around the fretboard a lot when I upgraded from an Ibanez SR885 to a Zon Sonus 5/2. I'd played the Ibanez almost exclusively for about 7 yrs. and had grown comfortable with some of the muffling properties of that bass.

The Zon forced me to clean up my playing and I would say that I'm definitely a better player for having gone through that. I also found that certain "tricks" like tapping, harmonics, etc. are significantly easier on higher end basses. (A side benefit of the Zon was that even non-musicians commented on how much nicer my tone was after the switch).

I've also played some higher end basses that just didn't feel or respond the way I'd like.

I once played a used Curbow XT33 that was going for $4000. Man do I wish I'd taken the plunge and bought that thing. I haven't heard a bass sing like that under my fingers before or since. I'm not sure anyone else would hear the difference, but I think I'd be a better player with that bass strapped on.

Edit: I purchased one Zon new (but on clearance), one used. Neither broke the $1500 mark. I think Zons are worth every cent and then a few more and are the kings of their price range... but I'm biased!
 
#20
As a four stirng player, honestly, it makes no difference to me, as long as the bass is set up the way I like it. I can get by just as well on a $100 SX as I do on a multi- thousand dollar bass, and still always sound like myself. There is a gigantic difference in price between my cheapest and most expensive basses too. I sound the same on all of them, more or less.

I can't speak to the differences with ERB's because they aren't my thing, but I might think there is more of a difference there, in getting a decent B string tone.

As far as 4 bangers go... makes no difference for me, provided I have a decent set up to my liking, on the bass. A good luthier can work wonders with an inexpensive bass as far as playability goes.
 

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