my experience is that a quality instrument can definitely help, but it's not the direct reason that your skills will improve. having a quality instrument definitely makes me want to practice more. if you spent that much money on it, you'd feel dumb not to put it to use. also i'd say it can help your technique to an extent because a quality instrument can, in cases, be more comfortable to play. this also helps build speed for the shredders. but that's still only going to be the case if you practice consistently.
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question for the masses
- Thread starter kcolyar
- Start date
lowtide
Commercial User
i rarely play "the house rig" because i hate just about everything. i dont do tube heads, i almost never even do 4 string basses. that being said, i never "need" a fodera to make good music. i had sort of an epifani with this when before a gig, the band and i were in this basement sort of "hang out" spot, that was full of other people. i was playing a friends no name (rougue or something..) violin bass, into a fender 1x15". (i wasent playing bass for this gig, so i diddnt have my stuff. this was just before the show jamming.) and everytime i looked up, the entire room was BUMPIN dancing to these simple little grooves comming from some of the crappiest equiptment ever. that was when i realized, no, good equiptment is not something you NEED, however it can greatly improve you - having a wonderfully built top of the line bass definately will inspire you to play better..but when you find yourself holding a hohner knockoff hollowbody, dont say "i cant play because this bass is junk."
When I buy a shiny new bass, I tend to play it ALOT more than normal when I get it. When I got my first nicer bass, my sound improved from better electronics and playability, and my playing improved because I loved my new bass and practiced alot.
I have Ibanez GSR200. And I dont need Fodera, Alembic or souch stuff, but out of this Ibanez, I cant get a tone I want, and the neck really sucks, so that would be the only reason I want a "better" bass (think Stingray or maybe P)
My opinion i that good bass dont make a good player... My skils will not change when i buy a "better" bass, but I will be more satisfied with my sound, and maybe practice more (Although, I realy play this crap at least 2h a day, but it has fret buzz, so on some frets I cant even play)
My opinion i that good bass dont make a good player... My skils will not change when i buy a "better" bass, but I will be more satisfied with my sound, and maybe practice more (Although, I realy play this crap at least 2h a day, but it has fret buzz, so on some frets I cant even play)
I know there are some companies out there that have good stuff at a decent price. Look at the Lakland Skyline series basses. IMO, they're nice, professional quality basses and can be had anywhere from $500-$1500 and they're good basses. I owned a 55-01 and, for the price, it was a killer bass, but I had to mod the crap out of it to get it to sound the way I wanted. I've also owned a Tobias Toby Pro, an Ibanez SR506 fretless, and a Tobias Renegade. I've modded every single one of those basses, except the Renegade which I still own. I thought that I had great tone and the basses I owned were good quality basses after I modded them.
Then just this past Saturday I finally got my $2,000 Valenti delivered to me. I must say that just after 2 days of owning it I feel that my playing has improved. My skill hasn't improved, no, but things that I used to play before on my budget basses were now played so effortlessly which allowed me to play cleaner and softer with the same result. Here I was thinking that I had to wrestle with basses to make them sound the way I want and now I can slap much faster because I get more punch with less effort. It's amazing what a bass made of good quality, more expensive parts will do. Also a higher price, most of the time, says that a builder will concentrate more on details that make a difference in overall playabilty like fret dressing, set up, intonation, electronics shielding, and assembly. Some of these budget basses are mass produced so fast that the average worker doesn't have time to cover details like that.
Just my opinion folks. Put the guns down!!!
Then just this past Saturday I finally got my $2,000 Valenti delivered to me. I must say that just after 2 days of owning it I feel that my playing has improved. My skill hasn't improved, no, but things that I used to play before on my budget basses were now played so effortlessly which allowed me to play cleaner and softer with the same result. Here I was thinking that I had to wrestle with basses to make them sound the way I want and now I can slap much faster because I get more punch with less effort. It's amazing what a bass made of good quality, more expensive parts will do. Also a higher price, most of the time, says that a builder will concentrate more on details that make a difference in overall playabilty like fret dressing, set up, intonation, electronics shielding, and assembly. Some of these budget basses are mass produced so fast that the average worker doesn't have time to cover details like that.
Just my opinion folks. Put the guns down!!!
I appreciate all the replies, and I agree with alot of you. I know an expensive bass will not instantly make me a better player. What I was hoping for was for some of you that up graded to a better quality bass and felt it was worth it reply. I wonder if Wooten or Manring or Johns would or could still get there sound with a different instrument. I know that alot of the tone is in their fingers, but how much is the instrument. That is the point of this thread!!! I am not naive enough to think a Zon is going to make play like the BASS GODS. I have found these threads to answer alot of questions for me in the past, and I was hoping for more of the same.
There're some great vids up on youtube of Michael Manring explaining his Zon Hyperbass and playing some tunes. If you look behind him, he has a rack FULL of goodies. I'd be tempted to believe that MM on his Hyperbass through a different rig will sound different. He'll still be MM, but he'll sound different.
While I'll agree that most of the sound comes from the player, I will disagree with many here at TB who think that it almost all comes from the player. I have tracks where I played different basses through different rigs. The style is still me; the tones are different. I recently picked up a Warwick Corvette $$ because of the silly range of tones I could get from the pickups.
Yes, the player is the most important part, but tone comes from a host of places -- from strings and setup to cabinet choice, we affect our tone. No, a nicer bass doesn't make for a better player, but it can certainly make for a better tone which in turn can make for more useful practice.
...Just like I could mix a track down using headphones I got off an airplane, or I can mix it down using high quality studio monitors. The song will remain the same, but the quality of mix will be better through the monitors.
You're right that a custom bass won't make you Michael Manring, but you'll often be surprised how well they play. Some mentioned this will reveal flaws in your playing, but I can tell you as a bassist of minimal talent, it's not that hard to fix a lot of these issues. Going back to other basses, boutique basses often show you how much other basses limit you.
You can give Lance Armstrong a rusty Huffy and he might still beat you, I'll take my all carbon Bianchi.
You can give Lance Armstrong a rusty Huffy and he might still beat you, I'll take my all carbon Bianchi.
SR4 cleaned up my playing to the max, because its much more articulate than my mudfest Squier PJ so i could hear all the things i was doing wrong
i can now also magically slap since getting it
i can now also magically slap since getting it
I think that having a better (or just a new) instrument makes you play more. The more playing you do the better you get.
As long as your happy with the bass you have and enjoy playing that's the most important thing.
As long as your happy with the bass you have and enjoy playing that's the most important thing.
Thanks for the positive feedback. I think I will start shopping the market here. As usual alot of help from the Pros'. I really do appreciate the comments. I played alot in the 80's and early 90's. Then took off about 15 years from having GAS. There is so much good stuff out there now.
Needed a much more expensive bass? No. Want? Sure. I would say at a certain level (advanced?) there would be a time when an expensive bass would be more needed to achieve your goals. I always use the Michael Manring example, as you're generally not going to be able to play his music like he does and sound like he does on a run of the mill P-bass, or probably any P-bass for that matter. Then again, I could be wrong.
However, a nice instrument always makes playing and learning easier, but this has limits. I'd say if you can't play Jaco's "Come On Come Over" or "Continuum" on a Squier Jazz Bass, buying a Fender Pastorious relic/tribute bass at 10 times the value of that Squier ain't gonna make it happen.
Hope this helps.
However, a nice instrument always makes playing and learning easier, but this has limits. I'd say if you can't play Jaco's "Come On Come Over" or "Continuum" on a Squier Jazz Bass, buying a Fender Pastorious relic/tribute bass at 10 times the value of that Squier ain't gonna make it happen.
Hope this helps.
I think my greatest improvement was noticed when I got the first professional setup of my instrument (and have gotten them ever since). In some respects, it both forced and inspired me to improve.
As for the outcome of upgrading from a $400 5 string to a $1500 7 string bass, I suppose it's fair to say that my attitude and approach toward playing changed when I got a better bass. Certainly, some of it had to do with the fact that I moved up from 5 to 7 strings, but there was also something about having a higher quality instrument that inspired me to tweak and stretch. The 7 string, whether it was because it's a better instrument (playability-wise, sound-wise, etc.) or just a very different instrument (with more options), revealed to me my need to use different playing techniques than what I had been using on the 5 string.
As for the outcome of upgrading from a $400 5 string to a $1500 7 string bass, I suppose it's fair to say that my attitude and approach toward playing changed when I got a better bass. Certainly, some of it had to do with the fact that I moved up from 5 to 7 strings, but there was also something about having a higher quality instrument that inspired me to tweak and stretch. The 7 string, whether it was because it's a better instrument (playability-wise, sound-wise, etc.) or just a very different instrument (with more options), revealed to me my need to use different playing techniques than what I had been using on the 5 string.
There is indeed a point of diminishing return, but there's still a return!!!
If the bass you want/need doesn't exist, it can't apply to the law of diminishing returns because there isn't an available alternative. You want diminishing returns, look at racing bikes. There's a thousand dollar price difference in Campagnolo Chorus and Record components. What's the difference? Record is a thousand more and weighs one pound less.
Well.....there's always "it's all in your fingers" argument, but would Manring sound like Manring with a P-bass with flats??? Probably not.
I think a lot of it is indeed in your fingers, but I would never go so far as to say that it is either "all" or "always" in the fingers.
IMHO and IME a "better" instrument is a filter that has fewer (or different) limitations to a "lesser" instrument; thus allowing better playability and/or tone and/or ergonomics OR nothing at all (probably the player has reached a plateau that the "improvements" of the "better" instrument do not apply, for whatever reason)
+1000 that tone starts from the fingers, yet is gets transmitted through the instrument's and set-up's idiosyncrasies
+1000 that tone starts from the fingers, yet is gets transmitted through the instrument's and set-up's idiosyncrasies
A better bass will most probably NOT give you the tone you're hearing from a pro playing the same bass, as a LOT of the sound is in your hands. However, it will probably make you sound better than with a worse bass. At least it happens to me. To make it clearer, me playing my worst bass and me playing my best bass is a night and day difference. However, me playing my best bass and a really good player playing my best bass through the same setup etc is also a night and day difference. So, yes, a better (not necessarily more expensive, mind you) bass can make you sound better than before, but no, it can't make you sound awesome all by itself.
